2024 Podcast Award Semifinal #1: Mattie Jackson-Smith vs. Pete Greig

Good morning, my friend. I hope you're doing well. Dr. Lee Warren here with

you, and it is time for some self-brain surgery.

It's Wild Card Wednesday, and I've told you that we are choosing for the first

time a Dr. Lee Warren Podcast Award winner.

We've got these incredible guests who have given us their time,

their insight, their wisdom.

They shared their books and their stories and their lives with us,

and we want to give something back. So we're going to pick the best interview of 2024. 24.

For quarter one, we had Maddie Jackson-Smith up against Jenny Allen.

The downloads overwhelmingly chose Maddie's story, her incredible story.

Quarter two, we had Pete Gregg against Tara Lee Cobble, and it was really neck

and neck, but Pete edged out Tara Lee, and Pete Gregg is the winner of the second quarter interview.

So today and tomorrow, it's time to choose the first finalist.

So we're going to have Mattie Jackson-Smith today and Pete Gregg tomorrow,

and we will decide who goes on to the finals.

We're in quarter three now, of course. We've had some great ones already.

We're going to have some more great ones.

And the rest of the year, just some amazing people coming up to the podcast.

So we're going to have a chance to give something back, to say thank you for

these people who have given us so much and blessed us so much with their stories today.

Mattie is going to bless you again with her story about her incredible loss

that turned into beauty from ashes. She's now had her baby.

She has a new book coming out. God has redeemed her story.

So today I'm going to bring you one of my favorite episodes from the first quarter

was a conversation with Maddie Jackson Smith.

Of course, she's Jackson the country singer's daughter, and her husband died

just a week prior to their first anniversary in a tragic accident.

Maddie wrote a beautiful book called Lemons on Friday, and I just had the opportunity

to read her next book, which is going to be coming out soon.

She gave me the great honor of being one of the endorsers on her new book.

She's written a beautiful 365-day sort of grief recovery devotional book,

and it's just wonderful.

And you're going to be greatly blessed by that. And we'll have Manny back on

the show to talk about her new book when it's time.

But I want to bring this episode back to you. We've got a lot of people on the

prayer wall that are struggling with loss and grief and pain.

This conversation really hits the highlights of how do you find hope and faith

and hold on to that healing hope when you're going through the most massive thing you can imagine.

Maddie Jackson Smith gave us hands off, heads up, a great talk about loss and hope.

And let's get into it right now. Now, we're going to do a little self-brain

surgery today around the idea of what happens when you think your life is going

in one trajectory. You've worked hard.

You've achieved a dream. You've gotten married. You've finally got things heading

in one direction, and you think you know what your life is about.

And then some sort of trauma or tragedy or massive thing comes along,

and your life all of a sudden is on a very different path than the one you thought you were on.

It can lead you to big questions about faith and who God is or whether God is

at all, whether he's on your side or against you or even exists.

It can leave you filled with doubt. It can shatter your heart.

It can make you question everything.

Today, we have a special guest, my friend Maddie Jackson Smith. I was on her podcast.

She has a beautiful podcast called NIN Joy Life, Enjoy Life.

Maddie Jackson is also, by the way, the daughter of Denise and Alan Jackson,

Alan Jackson, the country music singer. But Maddie's story has nothing to do

with being the daughter of a famous country singer.

Her story has everything to do with being a human being who finds herself in

a situation that's just unspeakably tragic.

Finds herself with some new labels like widow that she wasn't expecting at a young age of 28.

Finds herself wondering whether the God that she believed and trusted in would

really be there to hold her up in the aftermath of this horrifying situation.

And Maddie has written an incredible book called Lemons on Friday,

Trusting God Through My Greatest Heartbreak.

I was on Maddie's podcast a few months ago, and we talked about my book,

Hope is the First Dose, because we have some commonalities in our story.

And the big commonality is that we thought our life was about one thing,

and then something happened, and we had big questions about what we're going to do now.

We lost our son, Mitch, and what do we do now?

And do we really believe what we thought we did? and is God really who we thought

he was and is he gonna come through.

Or are we going to be devastated forever? And Maddie's story was she's going

along as a newlywed and thinks that her life is finally on the right track,

the way she's always dreamed of it being.

And all of a sudden, something happens and everything's different now.

Maddie's story is beautiful. It's powerful. It's tragic.

But you know what? It lands on hope. And the story doesn't end when the book ends.

And she's going to tell us some amazing things that God has done in her life

since she tragically lost her husband, Ben, a few years ago.

Maddie is so brilliant and so in love with Jesus and has such a great message.

She's helping people all over the world with her podcast and with her book, Lemons on Friday.

And I'm incredibly honored and grateful to bring you the story and a conversation

with Maddie Jackson Smith on the podcast today. Remember, friend,

you can't change your life until you change your mind. And Maddie's going to help us get it done.

But before we get to her story, I have one question for you.

Hey, are you ready to change your life? If the answer is yes, there's only one rule.

You have to change your mind first. And my friend, there's a place where the

neuroscience of how your mind works smashes together with faith and everything

starts to make sense. Are you ready to change your life?

Well, this is the place. Self-Brain Surgery School. I'm Dr.

Lee Warren, and this is where we go deep into how we're wired.

Take control of our thinking and find real hope.

This is where we learn to become healthier, feel better, and be happier.

This is where we leave the past behind and transform our minds.

This is where we start today. Are you ready? This is your podcast.

This is your place. This is your time, my friend. Let's get after it.

Music.

Friend, we're back and I'm so excited to be having another conversation with

my friend, Maddie Jackson Smith. Welcome back to the show, Maddie.

Thanks, Lee. I'm excited to be chatting again and get to meet all of your followers

and people. Actually, I said that incorrectly.

You've never been on my show. I was on your show.

It's welcome back. It feels the same. Like the screen looks the same.

The conversation feels just as great.

So yeah, it feels like second time. We had such a good talk on your show.

Enjoy life which is a great podcast you should check it out for and i'll put

the links in the show note maddie you got an incredible story and you live in

nashville right in nashville area,

yeah i do cool okay before we get started i want to get into your story and

your incredible book which i love lemons on friday um say a prayer for us let's

get after it yeah i'd love to.

Father thank you for the way that you use every part of our stories um thank

you for the way that that you don't waste our pain.

And thank you for the way that you bring together those of us whom you know

can support one another, love

one another, and ultimately share your glory with the people in our lives.

And so we ask that this conversation does just that, God, that points people

to hope and joy and endurance and resilience, and ultimately just always back

to you. And it's in your precious name we pray. Amen.

Thank you. you, Maddie. I've given the listeners a little bit of your story,

but let's just kind of hear the 30,000 foot view of your story.

And then we'll get into your book and how your life's playing out and some things

we can learn from you today. Give us the highlights.

Yeah, yeah. I'd say the highlights you mentioned. I'm in Nashville.

I was born and raised here.

And I met and married my husband, Ben, in my 20s here in Nashville as well.

And married here at our parents' home just outside of town.

And, and it was just, I mean, about as fairytale as you can get,

like not to sound trite, but he just had this magnetic personality and really

Lee sort of just like God given inherent joy for life and fervor for life and,

and was such an easy man to love.

And so we had this beautiful kind of courtship and marriage.

And about a year after we married, we went to Florida to just have a vacation.

We were celebrating his birthday, as well as both my sisters are all kind of

in the same little couple weeks there.

And so we went down to Florida where we've grown up visiting and went to celebrate.

And my dad's a big fisherman, so he's got a boat there. And we took this beautiful

sunset dinner cruise ride and stopped off at this little tiki bar restaurant we always go to.

And it was just such a wonderful night.

Sunset band dancing the whole shebang. And then as we go to get back on the

boat to leave, there had been a little pop-up thunderstorm.

And so the boat steps to back up were wet.

And Ben came over and kind of tried to help us get back up.

And his sandal hit the step just so. and he fell back and hit his head pretty

hard on the dock, which was concrete.

And, you know, he, he definitely knocked him out for a second,

but, you know, to us, it didn't seem to be anything incredibly alarming.

It kind of looked like, all right, like it's kind of like a high school football

thing. Like you kind of, he shook his head and came back to you.

And I'm thinking, you know, it's probably a concussion. We might be here a few extra days. And,

By God's grace, there were two off-duty EMTs there at the marina as well.

And they kind of came over and checked him out and said, you know,

this could be a lot more serious than it looks like. You should probably get him to the hospital.

So they helped us know where to go because, again, I wasn't home.

Didn't really know where to go. And from there, as you know,

well, the brain starts to swell.

And, um, from that point forward came about a 12 day stint, um,

in the neuro ICU, medically induced coma to try to keep that swelling down multiple,

I can tell you craniectomies and brain surgeries.

And, um, on the 11th day, uh, met with the neurosurgeon and,

uh, she came back in and she,

they had done an MRI and she said, I am so sorry to tell you this,

but you know, He's had multiple strokes, and he's essentially brain dead.

And we didn't know because he had been in that coma.

And so from there began not just that immediate sort of battle within myself of, what do you do here?

Because as you know, the options aren't really options, right? Right.

Like you, I have to be the one to decide to end his life as my wife or his wife,

because his body is being operated, you know, by machines.

And so the first sort of supernatural and tragic way that I can, in retrospect,

see God answer prayer in this situation was me begging that night back at the

hotel, like, Lord, don't make me make this choice.

Like if, if this is his time and you're not going to make Ben a miracle as we've

prayed for two weeks, then you have to do this.

Like you have to take him. And he did his, his heart stopped in the middle of

that night. And, and he passed gosh at 28.

Um, we're both 28, three weeks before our first anniversary.

So, you know, the trauma of it is, as you, and probably a lot of your listeners

know, it feels surreal. Yeah.

And then just multiply that on top of the anticipation of we've almost been

married a year and we have our whole lives ahead of us and all these plans.

And it just it was inavocable, honestly, for a long time.

So that was about five and a half years ago that we lost him.

And my book that you mentioned is my journey through that,

just as your books are kind of an open, looking at an open heart of this is

what I dealt with as a person who loves God and believes that he's good and

believes that he's sovereign.

And yet somehow I had to reconcile those two things when my life felt the opposite

of good and that his sovereignty obviously had to play some role in this that

I had to figure out. So there's a ton to unpack there. Um.

But that's basically the highlight of the last many years of my life and my

story and the book and a lot of what I do.

So you're you're living your life. You've got the dream husband and the new

marriage and everything seems to be going great.

And I think like we talked about on your show, you know, we had this moment

where right before Mitch died, we had this reunion and everything seemed to

be getting better. And then all of a sudden he was gone.

And you've got that almost first anniversary and this tragic,

unforeseeable thing happens.

Tell us about anger and doubt and how you felt in your faith and your spirit

in those early days after Ben died.

Yeah i think like i said and you

know well like there is this sort of surreal component

to the beginning of that you know and the shock and adrenaline and and everything

that happens physically that you know i think god wires us that way to protect

us and and when that kind of starts to wear off you know after those first few

days or weeks or whatever doubt really was i I think the first thing that, um,

that came rushing in the anger part for me was, was more limited.

Um, it came a little bit later and, and I don't say that in a valiant way.

I think it's just how I'm wired.

I tend to be, as we've discussed a really hopeful and optimistic and positive person.

Um, and it takes a lot to really make me angry. So what happened first was sort

of what I mentioned a minute ago was.

Man, we, we trust you, God, like this, we're a family that came together,

not just because it was a crisis, but because you are the foundation of our life.

And you know, like, carried, I carried this Bible all around this hospital.

And we prayed all of these prayers.

And we sung hymns over his body. And we prayed over the staff and kind of tried

to witness in a way to the people in the the hospital that like,

this was kind of like, like this sounds ridiculous at this point,

but it was kind of like, God, like we're teeing you up for this miracle moment

to like change people, you know?

And we really believed that. And it wasn't, it truly was from a place of sincerity.

It was from a place of hope, desperate hope and trust.

And so when those things that are really all we have in our tool belt to fight

with, right, seem to fail or seem to let us down, or God seems to not,

you know, quote unquote, end up or hold up his end of the bargain.

There's a huge feeling of disappointment.

And that feeling for me was, how can I trust you again?

You know, like in so many ways, but especially Lee, like for me,

the kind of first thing was, how do I trust you in prayer? Like, why do I pray?

Because the weird twist in the story, um, which I referenced in the book was

within about a month or maybe a little less, I've been passing away.

A girl that I grew up with, um, in high school that I played sports with suffered

a very similar injury, a car accident injury, same, you know,

swelling in the same surgeries and long-term, you know, coma and all.

And some of us girls that had played basketball together came together to pray for her.

And I looked at my best friend, Emily, who was there to like kind of facilitating it.

And I was like, man, you got to lead this because I don't know if this matters right now.

I mean, I don't know why we pray for her to heal, like because it's kind of

just going to happen how it's going to happen kind of thing.

And so that doubt was really the first kind of, I think, big obstacle that I

had to face in terms of my faith.

And it's just, you know, it's just an emotion and a feeling that I wasn't used to.

And so that's, I think, as you know, again, what grief is sort of this torrent

of feelings that you have to kind of just tackle one at a time because they can pop out of nowhere.

And so that doubt was a big part of, you know, me grappling with what does it

mean to be a believer and to suffer?

What does it mean to to trust God and surrender to him?

You know, those things are kind of things you have to hold in two separate hands.

And so in addition to just heartbreak and sadness and like disbelief and confusion,

you know, it wasn't some catastrophic injury and it didn't seem to me like it

should have escalated to, you know, a fatal point, but it did. And so sort of.

Part of sort of dealing with that doubt and confusion and distrust,

to be honest, of God came from surrendering.

And the thing that I talk a lot about in the book is trading understanding for trust.

And that is way harder to do than it sounds. A cute little sentence pulled out of a book.

But that was a lot of my fight that first year because we think inherently as logical beings.

He's like, if we get a why, you know, if we get an explanation,

if we can understand that that will ease the doubt or anger or heartbreak or or sorrow or whatever.

And and I just don't think that's the case. Like, I think at some point we have

to surrender and and lay those things down and say, I'd rather trust you,

even though I don't get it.

Yeah, that's the battle.

Yeah, somebody gave us that perspective from Job that I wasn't,

you know, we didn't know what happened to Mitch.

We still don't know what happened to Mitch. Did somebody kill him? Did he kill himself?

We don't know. And a pastor said, you know, Job asked why, and God never told

him why. God just said, who?

Like, you need me. You need my bigness, my omnipotence, my presence,

my love. You need me. You don't need to know why.

And that's hard to swallow, right? Right. But how do you progress through that?

Like what what kinds of things did you do?

I noticed in your book you you tell some stories about doing a lot. There's a lot of action.

Like you go to Ben's office and clean out his stuff. You go hunting to recreate

some of the things like you're a doer.

And I think did you find that sort of Tony Robbins thing to be true?

Like like if you want to feel better, do better, like start doing stuff.

I mean, I really did. I'm glad that you point that out from the book.

That was something that was really important to me was to not only let people

into the emotional and mental and spiritual struggles that I went through,

but also not leave them empty handed.

Expanded because for me, as you said, I am, I am a doer. I am an action oriented person.

And, and for whatever reason, I really am, am created by God to embrace sort

of the do before the be, and there's pros and cons to that all over the place.

But the pros are, you know, sometimes when you choose and you are able to,

to take an action, you know, your feelings eventually follow in some way,

or at least that was true for me.

So when I was able to figure out one of the first stories in the book that, um.

It kind of indicated doing it in that way that honestly, I, I thought it was kind of silly.

I was going to cut it out. I was like, no, one's going to care about this.

And it's one of the, one of the stories that I get the most feedback on was about, um,

my friend Emily, who came over around Halloween, which at that point was probably

like five, six weeks after Ben had passed and, and just in the throes of not wanting to do anything.

I mean, in the throes of real, you know, depression and just saying,

Hey, can we go get some pumpkins and stuff for your porch?

And I was like, it was the last thing I wanted to do. Like it's still hot here in October.

They're heavy. Like I'm not, I have no green thumb. I'm like,

these things are just going to rot.

And then I'm going to have to throw them out along with all these stupid flowers.

People have sent me that. I can't keep alive.

I just had like a very resistant negative posture toward that idea.

But I love her and I knew she was trying to love me. And so I went reluctantly

and there was some point through that process. I'm talking like, this is not profound.

Like I'm in a little elementary school down the street, lugging these things in like kids wagons.

And I started arranging them on my porch and I find myself saying,

actually, this would go a lot better here.

Or like this little blue one kind of compliments this best.

And there was some point where it was like, I was temporarily plucked out of

this grief even put into this space where I felt creative or alive or in retrospect,

just kind of like able to control one tiny thing that kind of gave me relief.

And so for me, that very insignificant experience became a significant reminder.

Like you, you can't unfortunately control a lot of what you're going through

right now, but you can control once a day to choose one thing or one person

or one action that can be minuscule,

you know, that can bring a little bit of life or a little bit of energy or a

little bit of hope or just a little smile, something, you know,

and it has to be really small, but, but it sort of taught me that lesson straight out of the gate.

Like the only thing you have control over is to choose one thing a day that will, um.

Release something or pour in a little joy or pour in, you know,

anything besides, you know, this doubt and this grief and this heartbreak.

So there are a lot of examples through the book. That's a silly one.

But I think that one of the few things we have agency and especially in grief,

you know, our little tiny moments of lightness,

you know, joy is a big word for the beginning, but eventually you can get to

those moments of joy. Yeah.

One of the things I think that you really beautifully addressed is this idea,

and we came to it with becoming bereaved parents, which is a label that nobody wants to have.

You came to understand that you were a widow, like you had this identity that

you weren't looking for, didn't want, hadn't identified yourself as.

And people started referring to you as a widow, like unpack that when people's

roles in their lives change a whole lot.

It can be a kind of its own sort of grief when you come to that to see that

or feel it for the first time.

Oh, it for sure is. You know, there's there's a whole I think chapter kind of dedicated to identity.

And when people they don't really ask what's your favorite chapter in this book,

but like what what chapter means the most to you?

It's often that one, because I think a lot of what we don't expect, right, with a loss.

Typically a death, is that there's huge parts of us that we feel like we lose with it.

And that's not a small secondary grief. Like, that's a big thing to deal with.

And for me, I think, you know, with us being so young, it felt...

It felt even more crippling because it was the truth of it was like this.

These 11 months may have been it, right?

This may, this may have been my only time as a wife or it may have eliminated my chance to be a mom.

And like all these things that, that you're inundated with when your future

looks like question marks kind of thing.

And so, so a big part of what I went through was not only grieving those sort

of roles that I had lost because I'd lost my,

my marriage, um but as

you said grieving this new one that i didn't want to be

honest i still i still hate the word widow and i think it's i did it before

but i think now just because it's it's so incredibly unwanted and it felt very

permanent to me and i mean in all reality it is permanent i will always is be widowed.

I mean, I will always have been widowed and be Ben's widow.

And, and it just felt like in those early days, it felt like the first and last

thing people would always say about me, you know, like it felt like my one capitalized identifier,

it felt like everything, you know, And so learning to accept that was a very long process.

And I think what finally led me to, I guess, really accept that term is just

to see the purpose that God finally wove into that for me.

That even though it is in a way permanent, it never is going to be like the

title of my life story, right? It really is going to be a chapter.

And I hope to God it's the worst chapter. I can't imagine.

I hope there isn't a worse chapter. And I still grieve that,

that it had to be a chapter.

But there's so much of it now that I have been able to see good in,

I guess, just in relationships with others, in community with others,

in helping others through that same tragedy and that same title.

That I've seen him redeem it. I still don't want it, but I've seen him redeem it.

And just on sort of to, to tag onto that, it also just reset my kind of understanding

of our identities in general.

And this was a big thing for me

in that chapter in the book was that I had never, I had never really let,

my identity go.

Christ, be the true foundation. Like that's a phrase we hear a lot.

Everybody knows like what that means.

You know, if you're a believer, your, your identity is secured in Christ.

Like you are a son or daughter of God and co-heirs of Christ and all these things

that scripture assures us that we are.

But until I think you go through something that really strips away the other

titles that have given you so much value and so much joy, boy, those are good things.

But if they become, you know, the title of your whole life story in your mind,

then you're just you're living on very unstable ground.

And so when all of that fell away, it, I'm grateful to now today,

even when I have found these amazing new identifiers and titles and roles in

my life, you know, praise God,

I now know that I have to keep them secondary to who God Because everything

is temporary besides man, the God of the universe chose you and died for you and calls you his.

And that's the only thing that that really lasts and everything else is a bonus.

That's that's how I feel.

Now, Lee, like I've told people, it's like everything else is such an awesome

bonus, but it doesn't define who I am.

Well, I think the emotional turning point for me in the book and your story

is in your counselor's office and she's got the word acceptance like written on the board. Right.

And you're not ready. And then God gives you this vision and these words like

it was a heads up, hands off.

Is that what it was like? Talk about that for me. That was so it was like I

was on the treadmill. I was running.

It was like, yeah, like heads up, hands off.

Matty, you got it. Tell us about that because I think that lands the plane.

Like when we go through these massive things and God finally gives us a vision

and he's like, this is what I need from you and I'm going to get you through

this. And just tell us about that for a minute.

Yeah. Um, it, it was like a mic drop moment for sure.

I don't think I knew exactly what, you know, he was asking of me in that moment,

but I remember feeling like almost a physical exhale and like physical removal of weight.

Um, just from that message of let go,

like the hands -off was let go of trying to understand, let go of trying to

control the way that you're going to grieve.

Like you, you can't, you know, the more that you try to do it well or try to

do it in your own strength.

Well, really the more of this is going to be a dumpster fire,

you know, you feel like you need to let go of it. That you need to surrender

was the big word, I think, of my journey through those whole first few years.

And the physical action and image of putting your hands up, of raising the white

flag, whatever, was a reminder that I had to visualize when I felt myself white-knuckling something.

And this was the only way you're going to be free to move forward.

And the only way that you're going to be free to let me heal you in a way that will really last,

not you heal yourself by escaping or numbing or staying too busy or whatever,

but you have to daily come to me in prayer and say, God, this is the stuff that I'm scared of.

This is the stuff that I'm really afraid of. This is the stuff that I'm trying

to figure out and manage on my own.

And I hand it to you because I trust you.

And that's a very difficult thing to do.

It is a true act of worship, honestly, when you're in that much pain and a true act of obedience.

And he's just saying, I'm doing this to set you free, let go.

And so for me, that started sort of being

the the beginning of the day mantra was like what

do i need to surrender and i really would have to

physically picture it because kind of like we talked about before like

if actions precede feelings like i didn't feel excited

to lay these things down but i had to to write them down write them down on

a paper and then speak them out loud and that was my way of of taking my hands

off and then the reason you don't feel what helps you not feel out of control when you do that, right?

If you take your hands off the steering

wheel, you're for all intents and purposes, pretty out of control.

But if you take, if you take your hands off, then you have to look to the person who can steer.

Right. And that was his message to me was like, you're hurting yourself more

when you're trying to do this your way than if you let go.

And stop fixating on everything that is a question mark that is scary,

that is very reasonable for you to be worried about and want to understand and

you fix your eyes on me and it's just, it sounds so churchy and simple and it's,

it's not simple. It's hard to do.

But to me, it's just like, I've told people before, it's like we live in a world

that's filtered, right?

We're very, we're very familiar with the idea of filters.

And when you put on a filter, it doesn't change what's in the picture.

But it changes how you see what's in the picture. And when you really keep your

head up on the Lord, on his word,

on his promises, on the small ways he's been faithful to you in your past that

can remind you that he's going to be faithful again,

then the filter changes.

Like the filter becomes hopeful and not fearful, you know, and the,

and the filter becomes, okay, you're strong, even though I'm a disaster.

And it doesn't change your situation and it doesn't change the picture, but it really does,

or it did for me, give me a perspective that allowed me to more hopefully go

through, you know, 24 hour blocks at a time.

And that's what that meant to me. And I really mean 24 hour blocks at a time.

That's about all you can handle or all I can handle. And he's faithful in those blocks.

You know, my mercies are new every morning. I take that literally because that's

literally what he did for me. That's beautiful.

I love it. It doesn't read like somebody's first book. I mean,

you really have given us a gift.

And anybody who's listening who's grieving or hurting or you know somebody or

love somebody who's been through something really hard, Maddie's book is an

incredible resource. It's one of the better...

Maybe the best grief resource that I can think of. It's really powerful and did a lovely job.

Honored your husband, honored the Lord. And I'm so grateful that you shared it.

I've got maybe three minutes left and I'm so much more of your story that I want to ask you about.

Sorry, I get excited and long-winded.

That's awesome. We got a late start because we had internet gremlins today.

So we missed about 15 minutes of our time. But listen, one thing is your book

ends with you finding your way back, landing on your feet. Your faith holds you up.

I'm not running the end of the story, but you land strongly.

But that's not where your story ends. So in a quick minute here,

tell us the rest of your story and what God's done in your life since the book.

Yeah. So the book came out about a little over three years ago and, um,

since then have met, um, this amazing man through mutual friends here and,

um, remarried May of last year.

And we are actually expecting a baby in June. Congratulations.

Yeah. Thank you. It feels wild. I said, before we started recording,

it's like, sometimes I look at, at this crazy redemption story,

which is all, it feels like redemption after redemption.

And feel like I've almost been a witness to it. Like it is a testament to the

creative God that we have.

Like he doesn't do the same thing twice. He really, he makes all things new. He creates from dust.

Like it just, it's been amazing to witness.

And to go back to kind of my podcast of joy, it's like when you,

as you know, when you go through the worst sorrow, It's like your well for joy is so much deeper.

So even to just go through a wedding itself, the second time,

man, like your capacity and attention to joy is so much greater.

And that's, that's one of the treasures, you know, of, of enduring all this

is all your emotions, you know, all your emotional muscles strengthened together.

So it's, it's been an incredible few years and, and I'm just so grateful to

be able to share both parts of, of that story.

Just congratulations. And it's so wonderful to see how your faithfulness has

been met and even exceeded by God's faithfulness to you.

And it's an honor. It's a real privilege to be your friend and to have a chance

to share your story with the listeners out there.

Listen, somebody that's listening

to this, Maddie, is in the early days of this thing that's happened.

Somebody just got the news. The diagnosis just came back.

You know, they're in that moment. what do you say to them like like what what

do you do right now when the when the wound is fresh what do you have to say.

I would say, like I mentioned before, I always say, just, just look at 24 hours,

you know, look at 24 hours, like you can survive this day and you can make one single choice,

minute choice to bring a tiny bit of joy or hope or lightness or a smile or a laugh into this day.

And, and I think when, when we take that approach,

you know, for me, it became, it became less overwhelming because I knew I could

do 24 hours you know six to eight of which I was sleeping um and then and then

the other thing is just like do not do this alone do not,

think that it is valiant or noble to try to carry all this on your own shoulders

Jesus tells us not to do that I think I can speak for you Lee we're telling

you not to do that you are not a burden into the people who love you.

If the roles were reversed, you would long to help to carry a little bit of the weight.

Like you're allowing them to love you when you let them help you,

whatever that looks like. Yeah. That's right.

Beautiful. My friend, thank you so much. We're going to encourage a lot of people

around the world with your words and with your book and just appreciate it.

God bless you and your family and the new baby.

Thank you. Thank you, Lee, so much. Same to you. We'll have to get round two for both podcasts.

We need to. We've got more to tell, I think. So God bless you,

Maddie. Thank you so much. You too.

What a great conversation. I'm so inspired by Maddie's faith and her story.

She's brilliant. And her podcast, by the way, is incredibly encouraging.

I put links in the show notes to her podcast, including the episode that I was on.

We had a great talk about neuroscience and faith and doubt and hope and all

of that. And we just had a great time.

Maddie is one of my favorite people in the grief and hope and faith space.

Her book, Lemons on Friday, will encourage you.

If you've been through something hard, trauma, tragedy, some kind of massive

thing, Maddie's story will encourage you.

And I love the way that God put her back together and redeemed her faith and

landed her solidly on her faith

and on her feet so that she knows what she needs when life gets hard.

And then he brought love back into her life. And then he made her ready to be a mother and a wife.

And I love how he built and recovered and operated on her before he finished her story.

And it's just so inspiring. And we look forward to talking to Maddie again on

the podcast in the future. She has a lot more to say.

We had some sort of internet demon that cost us about 15 minutes and I had to

go on Susie Larson's show live right at the end of our talk there.

So we kind of had to wrap it up. So we'll definitely have Maddie back on the show.

Listen, if you're hurting, if you need help or hope, or you know somebody who

does, Maddie's podcast, Enjoy Life, Life is a great resource for you.

And her book, Lemons on Friday, I can't recommend it highly enough.

One of my favorite books ever in the grief space.

And she will give you some hope and some help to find your feet and your faith again.

Maddie Jackson, what a great talk. Hope you enjoyed it. Hope it was helpful

for you. Remember, friend, you can't change your life until you change your mind.

But Maddie's story reminds us that we can always start today.

Stay tuned tomorrow. We'll re-release Pete's conversation. conversation and

you can help us choose the finalists to go on to compete for the title of the inaugural 2024 Dr.

Lee Warren Podcast Award winner. We will see you tomorrow. God bless.

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