Closer than Your Next Breath, with Susie Larson

Good morning, my friend. I hope you're doing well. This is Dr.

Lee Warren, and I'm here with you on a Theology Thursday.

It is almost Christmas. It's Thursday, 21 December, and I'm so grateful to have

an opportunity to spend a little time with you.

And since we're doing Theology Thursday, and it's almost Christmas,

and we're in the middle of Advent, and we're asking the question,

when, Lord, when will you come?

And we're in the middle of this season of seeking Him and trying to feel His

presence. I thought it might be appropriate to bring back one of my very favorite

conversations we've ever had on the podcast.

Susie Larson was on the show earlier this year for a two-part episode to talk about two of her books.

The first is Closer Than Your Next Breath, which is her latest release.

She's got a new book coming out in January, by the way, and she'll be back on

the show soon to talk about that.

And then her book Fully Alive. These are two of my very favorite books.

As we talked about earlier this week, I think Closer Than Your Next Breath is

number one on my list of books that I've read for this year.

And I'm so grateful that we had a chance to talk to Susie. And I think since

we're right before Christmas, we're asking these questions, we're wondering

where God is, it's time to sit down and answer the question.

God is always closer than your next breath.

This episode is raw, it's stunning, it's emotional a little bit.

It's certainly vulnerable on Susie's part. This book is amazing.

And I hope that you've had a chance to read it. We do mention giving away a

couple of books. Those have already been given away. So please don't write in for books.

We've already given those away because this is a re-release of that episode.

But I just wanted to bring you back this. We're gonna do part one today to talk

about Closer Than Your Next Breath, part one tomorrow to talk about Fully Alive,

and that'll get us ready for Christmas.

We pray that you have the greatest Christmas season of all time.

And if you're having a little bit of a rough time, if it's one of those years

of trauma or tragedy or massive things for you, or if you're alone or deployed

or working, we've got some episodes for you coming up in the next few days too.

We're praying for you. We love you. Check out wleewarrenmd.com slash prayer if you need prayer.

The prayer wall is a great worldwide community now of people praying with and for each other.

And without further ado, we're

going to get into this amazing conversation with my friend Susie Larson.

Closer than your next breath. Let's get after it.

Good morning, my friend. I hope you're doing well. This is Dr.

Lee Warren, and I am so grateful and honored to have your time this morning.

It is the 19th day of August, 2023. 23.

And I'm really incredibly grateful and excited to be with you today.

I had a chance yesterday to sit down and talk with,

Really, one of my favorite writers, Susie Larson, is a best-selling author,

national speaker, and host of the popular radio show Susie Larson Live on Faith Radio.

She has written over 20 books and devotionals. Her podcast has 3.5 million downloads,

and she reaches a half million people a week with her daily blessings,

emails, and posts on social media.

She's an incredible speaker, author, sought-after guest on shows like Focus

on the Family, Life Today, and Family Life Today.

Susie's got a brand new book out this week, and I just finished it.

It's called Closer Than Your Next Breath, and it is a powerful look at where

God is when you need him the most.

And we had a great chance to sit down and talk yesterday via Zoom.

I've been on Susie's radio show twice, and I'll put the links in the show notes,

and just have kind of become friends over the magic of the Internet since I

first was invited to be on her show to support my book. I've seen the interview. you.

And then she invited me back for Hope is the First Dose. And now here she is

on my podcast. I'm so grateful.

And I'm also excited to announce that Susie will be back in two weeks to do

another conversation about one of her previous books, Fully Alive,

which I think is going to really encourage you and challenge you in a number of ways.

We get into neuroscience and healthy living and all the different ways that

God wants us to be fully alive.

And that book made a difference in my life. And I want to share it with you in a couple of weeks.

But this week, we're talking talking about her new work, Closer Than Your Next Breath.

We had a stunning, diverse conversation about a lot of different things.

And she's got a powerful story.

And while she's sharing her story, there's some brokenness and pain and chronic illness.

And you'll see how God's faithful hand has been with her.

And it'll encourage you to see that no matter how broken or how down or how

hurt you've been, God has a plan and a purpose for your life, friend.

We had an email from a listener that I got the day before yesterday,

or actually yesterday, and it was just devastating.

And Susie and I talked about her, and we shared that story, and Susie prayed

for her. And I think that the conversation is really going to mean a lot to you.

And if you're hurting, if you're wondering where God is, I would highly encourage

you to pick up a copy of Closer Than Your Next Breath.

We are going to give away two copies of that book. You'll hear the information later in the show.

And I want to give it to two people who really need it. So listen to the conversation.

If you find yourself saying, yeah, I really got to read that,

then write in and you can be one of the two people to receive a copy from Thomas

Nelson of Susie's new book, Closer Than Your Next Breath. We had an amazing conversation.

I can't wait to bring it to you. I've been editing it this morning and I got

so much out of it, even the second time that I heard it.

And I'm excited and really honored to introduce you to a new friend today, Susie Larson.

But before we do that, I want you to remember it's all in August.

And if you've been struggling in your life wondering where God is

maybe it's time for you to press in a little bit harder maybe it's

time friend for you to go all in to remember the facts

of self-brain surgery that you can't change your life until you

change your mind and if you want to become healthier and feel better and be

happier you need to press in to who God made you to be to come fully alive and

realize that he really is closer than your next breath and if you're hurting

if you've been through the massive thing like we have tomorrow's the 10th anniversary

anniversary of us losing our son, Mitch.

And I'm never going to be over that, but God has redeemed and restored my life

and given our lives meaning and purpose again.

And he's helped us to even find happiness because he was in our greatest hour

of need, closer than our next breath.

Friend, Susie's conversation is going to help you and encourage you.

But the most important thing is to remember that you can't change your life

until you change your mind, but there's good news that you can start today.

Hey, are you ready to change your life? If the answer is yes, there's only one rule.

You have to change your mind first. And my friend, there's a place where the

neuroscience of how your mind works smashes together with faith and everything

starts to make sense. Are you ready to change your life?

Well, this is the place, Self-Brain Surgery School.

I'm Dr. Lee Warren, and this is where we go deep into how we're wired,

take control of our thinking, and find real hope. This is where we learn to

become healthier, feel better, and be happier.

This is where we leave the past behind and transform our minds.

This is where we start today. Are you ready? This is your podcast.

This is your place. This is your time, my friend. Let's get after it.

Music.

Peeking out. I'm so excited. I've got one of my favorite authors.

I've been on her show a couple of times, nationally known radio host, bestselling author.

I've got Susie Larson on the show today. Susie, welcome.

I'm so honored to be with you. And I told you off the air, I'm a huge fan of yours as well.

I've been loving your show and we've got you coming up several more times on

my show. So I'm super excited about that as well.

Amazing. Thank you so much. And this is a big big week for you.

You've got a new book out.

It sure is. I was going to say, it's like giving birth, but maybe you don't

know what that is, but you have children. I know what releasing books is like,

but I don't know about that.

Yeah. Yeah. It's a, it is a big week and it's a labor of love and there's always

warfare that goes with it as well, but I'm super honored and grateful and I

love how it turned out. So super glad to be here with you today.

That's amazing. So the new book is Closer Than Your Next Breath.

Where is God when you need him most? And friend, I'm just going going to encourage you.

This is a book, a lot of Susie's books are aimed at women.

This one, I don't know if it was purposeful or not, but really anybody can read

this book and feel like it was written for them.

And I think that was wise because this book reached and ministered to me in

a place that I needed it. And it's encouraging, but not superficial.

It's theological, but not overly, it doesn't beat you on the head.

It's just, it just covers a lot of ground and it's up there with the best of

Max Locato and Philip Yancey and Eugene Peterson.

And it's just, it's It's well done, Susie, and I'm grateful that you've written

this book. And give us a little bit of your story.

You've come from some hard places and you've been through some hard things.

You've been really open about that, chronic illness and all kinds of things.

So give us a little 30,000-foot view of you and your life, and then we'll get

into the meat of the talk.

Yeah, thank you so much, Lee. Raised in a large family. I was fifth to seven

kids, and I was a people pleaser and a rural follower.

I was raised in a denomination where I knew God was real.

I sensed his presence, and God was talked about in our church.

Church, but I didn't know Jesus was accessible.

I never heard the gospel. I didn't know there was salvation for sins or anything like that.

And when I was about nine years old, a group of boys, teenage boys in my neighborhood,

snuck up behind me and pinned me to the ground and pulled my pants down.

And I won't say more than that, but I suffered a sexual assault at nine years

old. And my dad was the mayor of our city for 27 years. So we were a public family.

And I was always aware of the pressure to be aware of that.

And in my little mind, I just didn't know if this would harm him or upset our

family because these boys were in some ways connected to my brothers.

And I just, I stuffed it into the basement of my soul, but it opened up a canyon

of fear and insecurity and all kinds of things.

And when I was about 10 years old, a year later, I was walking home from school.

We had to cross a baseball field to get home.

And a different group of boys were hanging out in the dugout.

And I know in my adult brain now that they were high on something because all I heard was, get her.

And they'd run out of the dugout. They run me to the ground.

They knocked me to the ground and pummeled me. They beat me to a pulp.

And they laughed wildly as they did. I saw this crazed look as they were kicking me and punching me.

I'm curled in a ball screaming, and they're kicking me in the stomach and punching

my face and pulling fistfuls of hair out. And I'm crying, screaming,

and they're just laughing.

And when they were done with me, I just remember even the feeling of them just

pushing off of me and walking away and laughing, going, do you believe we just did that?

And I had a fat lip and scratched up face and snarled hair.

And my bell was rung. And I got up and I was so traumatized.

And I heard in my ear, I can get to you anytime, anywhere, and God will never stop me.

And then I knew the devil was real. And that began a journey of fear,

which I've been super honest about.

I've had so much, a profound battle with fear. I'm not anywhere near where I used to be.

I'm not fearless, but I have come a long way. A lot of healing has happened

in my life. But you jump ahead to my middle school years.

I was a decent athlete and I could sing and whatever. So I just began this striving life.

And I often say when I'm speaking at conferences, when you don't know who you

are, you'll misuse your time, treasure, and talents to prove something that

Jesus has already proven.

He's given us all gifts for different reasons, but I didn't know who I was.

And the Lord moved me to himself when I was a teen. And at that point,

Lee, I knew I was saved, but I didn't know I was loved.

And I would actually say, I think a lot of Christians, even seasoned Christians,

might be striving their way through life knowing they're saved but not loved.

And moving ahead to my young adult years, married my husband,

who was raised in a strong evangelical home.

And we went right into crisis, high-risk pregnancies, bed rest.

I wrote about this in my Fully Alive book, but nowhere else and hardly ever talk about it.

But the middle pregnancy, I was on bed rest for a few months,

and there was a doctor that proved to hate women and did terrible things to

women when the husbands were out of the room.

And if you imagine the sexual trauma and a lot of unresolved trauma in my life

and then that happening, just added, that's just added to the weight of it all.

When I got pregnant with our third son, I was on bed rest for six months with

a one and a three-year-old.

One of those boys was strong-willed. So let me just tell you,

I had people going, I'll watch Jake. Good luck with Luke.

And so it was like all of my insecurities were confronted at that time,

because even when I moved into Christianity,

was released as a young adult to run after Jesus and go to a Protestant church,

so to speak, and run hard after God, I was on five committees.

I was just transferring my striving into the church, partly because I love Jesus,

but partly because because I didn't know I was loved and that I could rest in

that love and serve out of that full place.

So being put to bed for six months and going broke financially because of medical

debt and using up all my friend favors confronted all of my insecurities.

And I would say I was three months into bed rest. So I was six months along

and my doctors knew that I was getting a little depressed and they said,

let's just test the waters. Let's see how you do.

So they let me to get up and go for lunch with my old college roommates.

And long story short, it proved to be too much. Went back to bed.

Two weeks from that outing, pins and needles shot out my arm,

numbing all over my face.

And a pulsating, numbing feeling started at the base of my skull and pulsated around.

And my whole face pulsated with numbness and the room started to move.

And it began a neurological firework in my body over the next few months.

And I thought God lost my address. I could not even believe that I was going

through overlapping crises.

And I had a friend actually who was getting really tired of me.

And she would say sharp things because she was so annoyed that we were such a needy family.

And I hated it because I'm a striver. I'm a doer. And it was like,

I couldn't get out of this role.

And so she was over when some of these symptoms started flaring.

And I'm like, oh my goodness, my face just went numb and my arms are prickling. And what's happening?

And she's like, really this now, this too? two. And she said,

you know, it's personalities like yours that most often get MS.

And then she left mad. And I'm like, what? And I wish I would have had the mindset

to sort that through, but I didn't.

I felt like a spirit of fear came into my heart in my living room.

And I still had several months to go with this pregnancy.

And I know it's a long story, but I'll just try to synopsize.

I delivered Jordan three weeks early.

My health plummeted and they thought it was MS or a brain tumor.

They ruled that out. And a year later found out I contracted Lyme disease.

And I've gone a year undiagnosed. So it impacted me neurologically and still

does to this day. I've come a long way.

But in those places are where I learned something about God's presence.

I learned something about the character of God.

And so that is my backstory, just so people understand why I have the passion,

why I have the fight, why I have the focused purpose in my life,

because I want the enemy to be sorry he ever messed with me.

Let me just say it. I love it.

I love that. And you wrote in this book, actually, I guess it's a good segue

to the question I was going to ask you.

You wrote about how we can discern when we're being tested by God,

going through tests versus when we're being attacked by the devil,

because sometimes they feel similar.

So that sounds like one of those times when you had to learn how to discern

that. So talk through that for a second, Susie.

Yeah, think about it. If you're in class and you've got a really good instructor

and they've been educating you and pouring truth and facts and data into you and you're absorbing.

And then the test day comes and all of a sudden you start to get in your head

and you're getting nervous.

And then you look over your shoulder, you see them standing there.

They're for you. They're smiling.

They nod like you got this and you apply yourself to it. And it's a stretch. It's not fun.

You don't want to do it. You'd rather go run around the lake or do something

different. But this is where God has you to go to the next place of promise.

And I make the distinction in the book with some bullets about in a test,

you are are stretched, you are going to want ways out.

But if you can get your wits about you and discern, God has deposited things

in you. And this isn't punitive.

It really is to show you what's in you. God knows what's in you,

but he wants you to see what's in you.

Whereas an attack, so often it comes with some kind of physical ailment or some

kind of attack on your family where it's just below the belt and it disorients you.

Again, like I gave the example of my son in the book where he He had this amazing test.

He passed it with flying colors and then he ate gluten and it gave him a foggy

brain and a bad gut and it turned him around and he felt sluggish.

And almost always in the middle of the attack, your life will be contrasted

by those who seem to be skating where you are struggling.

And that was the case for me so much. My friends had health and wealth and I had neither.

And I was young enough in my faith where I thought, did God change his mind

about me or am I a substandard Christian?

And I think it's just so important to discern discern God's heart for you so

that you can rightly discern, clear the field of enemy accusation so that you

can steward the test because you got everything you need to come through that

and be equipped to go where God has you.

But if these waters get all muddy and you start to accuse God of things the

devil's guilty of, if you start to second guess your value to God,

that makes those things way more messy and hard to navigate. Right.

That's exactly right. And it goes to your point about you can accuse things

of God that he would never do if you don't know his character by knowing his word, right?

I mean, and just like you said, there's a quote from your book.

You were talking actually about people who overvalue experience so that they

think they need to have some big, powerful experience to be close to God.

And sometimes we do get those. But in the day to day, you said your core beliefs

need to be based on God's word and not on your experience. experience God is only and always good.

You can trust him. That's exactly what you're just saying.

Yeah, because I'm a feeling person. I feel things very deeply in those early

years, wondering where God went, what he was doing, and there were times he broke through.

And when he broke through, he

really did confront my small thinking or my unbelief or things like that.

And I really could tell that I could be that person who would go from sensation

to sensation, event to event, because there's nothing like it when you have

a tangible, visceral sense of God is near.

When you experience the peace that passes understanding that's otherworldly,

there's nothing like it. And I think those moments are to show us we're made for heaven.

We're not made for this earth. We're passing through as foreigners to a holy city.

But what happens is we go from event to event, sensation to sensation.

And you never really fully mature mature because he's not in just the sensational.

Sometimes he's not in it at all, but he's in the nooks and crannies of the everyday life.

A baby being born, a new morning mercies, the laughter of a child,

the grace to get through your day.

And if we are looking past all those things to go to the feelings,

I don't know that we'll ever mature.

And I know for me that the more I realized I was tethered to a God who sings

over me, who is for me, whether I feel him or not, the more confident I was

assured he is with me. And he's even leading me when I'm unaware.

And I'll just add this. I would save the person listening today.

If you're in one of those silent seasons, if you could peel back the sky and

see the spiritual realm,

you would see a heavenly father who loves you so much that he's singing over

you, that he's very affectionate towards you, that he's literally pointing and

charging warring angels to

be activated on your behalf because of prayers you prayed some time ago.

Just because you don't feel him doesn't mean there isn't all kinds of activity

in heaven on your behalf because he's always fulfilling his purposes in our lives.

So one of the things I try to do in the book is to discern why am I in a silent season?

Is it my fault? Is it the devil's fault? Is God after something in me?

And I just, I think it's wise to do some soul searching in those seasons.

Wow, that's beautiful. And it's exactly the Daniel story, right?

Daniel's in the lion's den. He's praying.

God's not answering his prayer. And then the angel shows up and said,

hey, I've been working on this for three weeks. I've been answering your prayer.

I just took a while to get here. Give me some credit here.

Give me credit. You said a renewed mind.

And this is where we're going to get into self-brain surgery because we're always

telling our people you can't change your life until you change your mind.

That's what Romans 12 is about.

And you said a a renewed mind and a faith perspective will only take you as

far as your capacity to know and believe that God really is good. Susie, that preaches.

Let me hear you talk about that for a minute. You have to know and believe that God really is good.

Boy, again, I feel like I'm the poster child for all the ways to do that wrong in those early years.

And for good reason. The enemy sees your potential long before you ever do.

And he will go after you at your youth and your childhood in whatever way and

hit you where you're most vulnerable

because your threat to him is very connected to his threat to you.

The way he attacks you is exactly because he sees the potential in you.

And he wants you to question the goodness of God. And for me,

there was a point, I had a pretty massive relapse eight years ago.

I did write about this in the Closer book, but it was really devastating to me.

At first, it looked like Lyme, it was acting like Lyme, but people apparently

with chronic Lyme have a susceptibility to mold, like they can't process mold.

And I had repeated black mold exposure that attacked my brain.

And I'm a talk radio host and I was getting my words mixed up.

My tongue was going numb. I forgot forgot how to spell. It was serious problems.

And I was getting to a point where I was bracing for impact.

And I didn't really attribute that to a mistrust of God.

It's just that the unpredictable nature of neurological firestorms are terrifying

and so discouraging because I'll be going along thinking I feel good.

All of a sudden my face goes numb and everything starts to spin up.

And a friend of mine said to me, she said, Susie, when you think about God,

if your default response response isn't this.

Surely goodness or mercy follow me. Only goodness and mercy follow me all the days of my life.

If that's not your default response when you think about God,

she said, something in you needs to be healed and something in your mind needs to be renewed.

And Lee, I really did think that was an acceptable posture because of the unpredictable disease.

But it really, if you dig deeper, it was a mistrust of God. So I'm a fairly

seasoned follower of Christ.

And this was eight years ago, this relapse happened. And it was just a few years

ago where I was confronted in that way.

And I started to look and I thought, oh my goodness, I really deep inside am disappointed in God.

I'm really hurt that he allowed this. And there was one day I was crying out

to him. I laugh because he's so good to me, but I'm like, I'm preaching the

word back to him going, hope deferred makes the heart sick.

And he's look it up. So I looked it up and the word deferred,

you probably already know this is a verb.

It's an action word. So I'm trying to tell him the reason my heart is sick is

because my hope is deferred.

And deferred is a choice we make. It's like deferring a payment.

And I was so completely humbled and confronted and I had to repent.

And I will just tell you, the enemy is always accusing God, always building a case against God.

And there will be no healing or flourishing until you get this right,

that he is good, that he is for you.

So even when he moves in and confronts you, there's no condemnation on it.

There's no humiliation on it.

There's a humble invitation that invites you to heal because you'll only be

your best self in light of seeing him for who he is. Wow. Wow.

That'll preach all day right there. You talked about the difference between,

so sometimes when things happen to us, it's tragedy.

Sometimes it's trauma and tragedy.

Sometimes it's because we do things that put us in a position to have things

happen to us that are hard.

And you talked about Proverbs 19.3, which I love how you pulled that out.

A person's own folly leads to their ruin and their heart rages against the Lord.

Like, how do we figure out when we have a role to play in the things that are

happening and how do we get God involved in that? And what's your perspective on that?

We come to Jesus for the first time through the low door of humility,

where we have to say, I'm a sinner. I need a savior. I cannot save myself.

And I would submit you can't grow without crawling through that low door of humility.

And again, it's not humiliation, but it's that place of being teachable to where

you say, Lord, search me.

Psalm 139. I pray it all the time. Search me and know me.

Test me and know my anxious thoughts. Point out anything in me that offends

me and lead me in your everlasting way.

Point out anything in me that offends you. Even Paul said, my conscience is

clear, but that doesn't mean I'm innocent.

God knows. David said, cleanse me from hidden faults. Keep me back from presumptuous sins.

And that hit me one day and I was thinking, there are sins of presumption.

It's very different to rely on the love of God and to presume on the favor of

God, where you think you don't have to do anything and God's obligated to keep

showing up for you. It's not true.

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. And if I could cite one more

verse, it's James 4, 7. It says, submit to God, resist the devil, and he will flee.

So my first point always, when I'm either in a silent season or I'm under attack or I'm feeling...

Like I'm about to head into the emotional ditch, always is to pray,

Psalm 139. And then I go to James 4, 7.

Submit to God, resist the devil, and he will flee. Submit to God is a military

term, and it means to get back in rank.

And we get out of rank all the time. And I think we're in such a day where we've

lost our reverence of God.

We've lost our fear of God. And so we presume upon God. We think,

you know, because he's good to me, he's good with everything I do, but he's not.

And so to get to that point to say, Lord, am I out of rank in any way?

How do you get out of rank? Rank usurping authority, picking apart your pastor,

gossiping, harboring unforgiveness.

There's a million ways you can step out of rank and be behaving in a way that's

unbecoming to a citizen of heaven.

And Watchman Nee once said, you don't have authority unless you get under authority.

I hear people say, if the devil's messing with you, just resist him.

He has to flee. And I'm like, not really, because he's a legalist.

First, you got to submit to God. You got to get back in rank.

And then you rise up in the authority. That's Jesus, right?

Luke 10, 19. then you resist him and it says he has

to flee and so i would say again if you peel the

sky back you would see some christians running for their

lives because the enemy's roaring at them and intimidating them

then you'd see other christians stomping their foot and saying and stay out

and he's running for his life because when he talks about him fleeing he's looking

for a new safe place to dwell because he's not found one in you anymore and

so i do think that we really do need to consider when life is hard, when the battles come.

I'm not saying every battle's our fault, every crisis, every trauma.

It's not, it's just not, but it's a wise first step. And my friend Maria says it this way.

When you come under it, she says, search your heart and let the Lord speak to you.

And if he shows you something, repent and then roar. And if he doesn't show

you anything, just roar.

I love that so much. So I'm not afraid of that because God doesn't come in with

condemnation. He comes in with conviction and invitation.

That's right. And that's how

our old pastor used to say the difference between shame and conviction.

The Holy Spirit will never shame you. He will never say, Susie,

you're terrible. You're horrible.

I hate you. He will always convict you and ask you to come back under his authority.

The devil will shame you and label you and hurt you and call you names and call you out.

And why are we so prone to remind ourselves of all the things that we've done

wrong and all the things that God must hate us for? and all these things.

You had this great line I pulled out.

We're prone to rehearse the things God has decidedly forgotten.

And we're just as apt to forget the things he has distinctly asked us to remember.

Susie, that's amazing gospel right there. Why don't we do that?

Prone to wander, Lord, we feel it. And we're averse to grace.

That is, you're quoting from my favorite chapter of the book,

the very last chapter, God remembers, God forgets.

When you think of how scandalous some of the story, a lot of the stories are

in scripture, But you think of Abraham and Sarah, and she nags her husband into

sleeping with the servant and then gets mad when he gets pregnant,

when this woman gets pregnant.

I'm like, Abraham cannot catch a break. But then when the Lord tells them they're

going to have a child and she laughs, they both laugh.

Evidences of Abraham's faith, but not so much of Sarah in the Old Testament.

And then you got Lot, who grew wealthy under Abraham's tutelage, grew wealthy.

And yet Abraham was the one who took the initiative to say, let's not let this

get between us. He continually showed the humility and the maturity.

What does Lot do? He grabs the choices of land, even though he's camping among

the ungodly. And you follow that story.

I unpack it in a way that I want it to come to life. And you think about...

When judgment is coming to that town, that when it was time for Lot to warn

his family, they thought he was joking, like he'd lost his spiritual credibility

because he'd so lingered with an ungodly society.

And if you were to leave it at that, you would think that maybe Sarah maybe

might have been a believer, Lot probably not, and Abraham, of course, he was.

But then you jump to the New Testament, and all of these are listed as people

of faith, faith, that Lot was bothered daily by the sin around him,

and that Sarah and Abraham gained a good reputation.

And I said, man, today's day, those would be reputation wreckers.

But what heaven remembers is our faith.

What God forgets is our sin.

And again, if we are constantly bringing our sin and letting the enemy allow

that stuff to speak to us, it will diminish how we live on this earth.

And I feel like the message of God's love will get lost in translation when

we're trying to to relate to others because you can't impart what you don't possess.

So if you don't really believe the blood has obliterated hell's claim on you,

you're going to live only partially free.

And you're going to have a skewed perspective when it comes to the lavish love of God.

But I think if you could understand that your sins have been put in the sea

of forgetfulness and every move you make because of faith, hope,

or love, heaven makes note of it. You give a cup of cold water.

Jesus rewards it. And there is a day of account for believers.

We often hear about the day of account for unbelievers but that we are

going before a mercy seat not to pay for our sins but

to give account what did we do with our time treasure

and talents and what gets me out of bed every day lee is the thought that there

are a lot of christians using their time treasure and talents to prove things

that jesus already proved it proved to pay for things jesus already paid for

but if you can understand you've been filled to overflowing blessed to be a blessing.

Every part of your life becomes an offering. Your conflicts have eternal opportunity.

Your blessings have eternal implications.

Suddenly you'd be living this generous life because you're thinking,

I'm loved. I'm living loved.

I've read the end of the story. It ends well. And yes, I have trouble on earth.

Jesus promised I would, but overwhelming victory belongs to me because I belong to him.

And I don't know what you think about this, Lee. It was never helpful for me

in the worst parts of this disease when people told me that God wouldn't give

me more than I could handle.

I'm like, okay, thank you. Bye now.

I don't feel better. Yeah, I don't even think it's biblical.

I think he allows unbelievable things, unbelievable things.

But what I do know about him now is what he allows, he redeems.

And what we suffer now is nothing compared to the glory that will be revealed to us later.

And I don't think we can live in today's culture that's completely lost its mind and upside down.

If we don't have our our eyes fixed on eternity, if we aren't sure that we are

tethered to a God who doesn't change his mind about us, there's nobody who can

gossip enough about you to God to make him change his mind about you.

You're tethered to a good God.

So that way, when you're walking through trials, you're not misreading the trials.

You're not forming a narrative that builds a case against God,

because those are the things that I think harm us so much in the long run.

Wow, that's exactly right. My dad used to, if he wanted me to remember something,

he would say, look in my eyes. He would get my attention, look in my eyes.

And listener, if you're watching the video, look in our eyes right now and hear this.

Isaiah, God says to Isaiah right at the start, let's settle this.

Let's settle this. I have washed your sins white as snow.

I have redeemed you. Stop thinking that I'm not gonna keep my word about that.

He's, hey, Susie, look in my eyes.

Let's settle this, man. I love it. But what made you write this book, Susie?

Why did you decide, as busy as you are, as successful as you are,

you've got lots of books out there, why this one?

Why Closer Than Your Next Breath in 2023? What led to that?

My life verse is Psalm 116.9. And so I walk in the Lord's presence as I live here on earth.

And when I think of those early years of such devastation financially and physically

with this health stuff, and my hubby, when I started to get a little better,

my hubby was diagnosed with cancer.

So we had a lot going on in those early years.

And yet it seemed like when God opened the sky and breathed life and spoke a

truth, and so often back then it was about issues of lordship or about me following

him on his terms and not mine. and then the times in between are when I would panic.

I wanted to write this book so that it would be a healing balm to many people

because they would exhale and go, this is who God is,

but it would help them rightly interpret their battles, but also navigate those

seasons when God does seem silent, that you're as sturdy and secure.

You can't be more secure than seated with Christ and he doesn't yank you from

your place at the table because you forget who you are.

But I do think there's often a lot of collateral damage when we misread those times.

Think about when Moses was up on the Mount Sinai and the Israelites are like,

we don't know what happened to this fellow Moses. This fellow Moses?

Really? You cried out for a deliverer. God sent you, Moses.

You saw miracle upon miracle. And because you're tired of waiting,

you diminish him to a fellow and you build idols. But that is what we do.

And I want a first love to come back to our hearts.

I want a new reverence to come back act before God, but I also want a healing

and an assurance that this is who he is and he loves you and it'll change the

way that you walk with him.

Wow. Is there a particular listener that you think of when you're writing this

book or if one person out there who's in one season could read it,

what's that time and who's that person?

The person who's been in prolonged hardship and they love God,

but if they're honest, a lot of disappointment and hurt has settled into the basement of their soul.

They're not going anywhere because they love God, but they're hurt because they

haven't seen him break through in a way that's helped them heal.

And that's why I think what you're doing is so important because I had these

women who approached me could see that I was in a rough spot mentally.

I just, I was still serving. I'm still doing my daily talk show,

but I was so profoundly hurt because of how deep and hard this last relapse was.

And it was by renewing my mind, but it was truly renewing my mind in a way of

understanding God's character in a way that I never have before.

I knew him before. I had intimate walk with him. I've had encounters with him

that have changed the way I walk with him.

But in those places of hardship and disappointment to discern who he really is, I found joy.

I found fullness. I stopped bracing for impact and started to anticipate his goodness.

And then when the hard stuff comes, it just doesn't shake me like it used to.

So that person, I'm praying that your heart would open up and you would just

read and just let the Lord just, you know, sing his song over you.

And I pray you could start to hear it.

And if I could just wrap with this, Jeremiah 17, verse 6, 7,

I'll start with verse 7, but it says, blessed are those who trust in the Lord,

who have made the Lord their hope and their confidence. They're like a tree

planted by streams of living water.

Their roots go down deep into the streams.

They're not bothered by the heat or the long months of drought.

Their leaves stay green. They continually bear fruit.

The previous verse six is cursed are those who rely on mere humans because they're

like stunted shrubs in the desert.

And again, when you think about the days we're in, if you're looking at politicians,

you're looking at leaders, if you fixate more on what men are doing than on

what God has done and is doing, you're going to stunt your own growth.

In the original translation of verse six of Jeremiah 17, it says they will not

see goodness when it comes.

Now in Isaiah, he says, see, I'm doing a new thing. I'm doing a new thing.

Can you perceive it, which means you could miss it.

So I think if you want to see and discern the good that's actually springing

up around you, lift your eyes off of your circumstances, put your hope in God

and saying, if you've allowed it, you're going to redeem it.

And what I suffer now is nothing compared to the glory that will be revealed to me later.

Lord, I want to live ready, expectant for your return. And you can't do that

without what you're teaching out all the time on this show is that self-brain

surgery and renewing our minds on the truth of who God is.

Wow, that's amazing. Jeremiah also said that they prescribe superficial treatments

for my people's mortal wounds.

They preach peace where there is no peace. And that's what you're doing with this book.

You're giving the depth, not the superficial treatment, the real medicine that we need.

And I'm so grateful, Susie. Was the choice intentional to aim it at the broader,

all of us and not just to women? Was that intentional on your part?

Boy, you're so perceptive. Nobody's noticed that. It takes a brain surgeon to

notice something like that.

Yes, it was intentional just because his presence doesn't discriminate in that way.

And most of my endorsers were men. And there's a lot of debate about should

women be talking to men and all that stuff.

And I think I opted out of some of that space, so to speak.

But we just felt like that's what God wanted me to do this time around,

just to write it to whoever needed it and in hopes it would land in the hands of those who needed it.

It landed in my hands and I needed it. And I'm just, it's interesting.

I had this same conversation with Lisa Bevere a few years ago.

She wrote a book called Adamant that was about truth and how to tell what's really true.

And it was aimed at women. And I said, there's a group of men,

all men, that need this message.

And I was so grateful when I read this book because I said, I can share this

with some brothers who need it and there'll be nothing that will turn them away

from reading it. No excuses.

It's amazing. I'm grateful for you. And I honor your time.

I promised you about 45 minutes. and we're we got about 10 minutes left

and friend i'll just make an announcement i haven't told you this before but

we've got suzy locked in for another conversation in a couple of

weeks i'm so grateful we're going to talk about one of your previous

books fully alive and we'll get into some health stuff in that book and some

neuroscience and you did a fantastic job with it and i can't wait to talk about

that but i've got an email here suzy from a listener just got this morning at

12 29 like 30 minutes before you got on the call with me a woman named julie

no and she writes this devastating email.

And I think we need to pray for her. And I think if you can just minister to

her, because there's going to be lots of other people listening that are going

through these massive things at the same time. But this is a perfect example.

And Julie says, Dr. Warren, I'm a regular listener to your podcast and I've

read your books. Thank you for all you do.

My husband died four months ago from a glioblastoma at a hospice care center,

and they were unable to control his pain with medicines.

And he died in agony for the last six hours of his life.

She said, I witnessed his suffering with our two adult sons,

and I'll never be able to forget that.

And I feel terrible guilt for not taking him back to the hospital to get his

pain in adequate control.

And it goes on for a while. But the end of the message is this.

How can I change my thinking around this reality?

I know it was not just my perception because the nurses acknowledged that he

was terribly suffering. Right.

And I'm trying hard to replace my guilt and anger and find hope to light the way forward.

Can you help me? Susie, how can you minister to this sweet lady,

Julie, and all that she's going through here?

Wow. Can I just pray? Please.

Father, lift up this dear sister, and I pray that you comfort her.

And I thank you that you are the comforter. I don't have to ask you to be who you are.

You're near to the brokenhearted. You save those who are crushed in spirit.

Spirit. You bind up and heal the brokenhearted and bind up their wounds.

You do that for her and her sons, Lord Jesus.

I pray, God, as painful as this is, Lord God, that you would eclipse that painful

memory with just visions of her husband in heaven, pain-free,

smiling, enjoying life.

And I pray, God, you'd bring an assurance to her heart that her time with her

husband will far exceed her time without him.

I pray, God, that you'd walk with her through this grieving valley Allie,

that you can't sprint through grief. You can't rush through it.

You can't do a workaround.

You've got to go through it. But I pray in it, Lord, that she would experience

a tangible sense of your presence.

And Lord, as painful as it is to walk this planet and to suffer the things we

do and to see the traumatic things that we see, Lord, your love heals all of it.

So I pray, God, that truly she would have an encounter with you that would go

to those traumatic places and just bind up her wounds and heal her.

Lord God, you're somehow so able to tend to the unexplainable,

to the mystery, to the hardships, and you can do that even in the land of the living.

Though our best life is ahead when we see you face to face, we will be like

you because we'll see you as you are.

You do promise to show us your goodness in the land of the living.

May she experience your goodness. I pray, God, everywhere she turns,

she'd hear confirmations of the reality of heaven.

The sensory explosion that her husband now has perfect clarity that he's seeing

colors he never saw before, tasting food he's never tasted, hearing songs he's never heard before.

And that pain is not in his memory now, Lord.

He's enjoying fellowship with you. And I pray that just the knowledge of that

would bring healing to her precious heart, God.

Oh, would you tend to her? And thank you, God, that you care more about her than we even do.

We lift our dear sister up to you right now in your precious son's name.

Amen. Amen. Thank you, Susie. That's going to minister to Julie and to all of us.

People all over the world are going to be ministered to and cared for and encouraged by your book.

I'm so excited to share it. Friends, we've got two copies of Susie's new book,

Closer Than Your Next Breath, to give away.

Send me an email, lee at drleewarren.com. Tell me why you need it and provide

a mailing address and we will get that book to you.

Graciously provided by Thomas Nelson and Susie. And we are just thankful,

Susie, for your time today and for your ministry and your friendship.

And great job with the book. And I'm excited to see what God does with it in your life.

You've encouraged my heart greatly because I told you when you were joining

me on the show, Lee, you're a brilliant writer.

You're a really, it's content is one thing, the craft is another, and you've got both.

And I love the way that God has set you up to minister to people who need it.

So I'm cheering you on and I'm honored to call you friend. Thank you so much.

Thank you, Susie. God bless you. Have an amazing weekend. Thank you. And you as well, sir.

Wow. Wow, I told you, wasn't that something? Susie Larson has a great gift for

understanding how to apply scripture in our lives and to bring God closer,

even closer than our next breath.

I hope you enjoyed that. I hope you will get her book.

I listened to the audio version and I kept finding myself backing it up and

then going to the Kindle and doing a screenshot and highlighting it and send

it to Lisa like all morning this week.

Every time I'll be on the treadmill or working out, I was sending Lisa text

messages of, you gotta read this page, go look up that page.

And we were all week long encouraged and blessed by Susie's words.

And Lisa's reading it now.

And friend, I just can't encourage you highly enough to check out Hope,

the hope that Susie offers in her amazing new book, Closer Than Your Next Breath.

I hope you will also listen to the show coming up in a couple of weeks when

we have our next conversation with Susie.

But in the meantime, I want you to go and spend a little time this week doing

what she suggested, like press in, go all in, press in closer,

look at places in your life where some of your behaviors might be keeping you

far from God or keeping him far from you and blow past those barriers that you

put up for yourself with your behavior.

And then look for places in your life where you're being tested and discern

the difference. Ask God to show you the difference between testing and trials.

What's the difference between when God is testing you and calling you to something

higher and when the enemy is attacking you?

And there are good tactical ways that you can discern the difference.

And Susie's conversation with us today helped us to see that her new book goes

deeply in to how to separate out trial and test from attack.

And it's really powerful and very helpful. I'm going to go back to it over and

over, and I can't wait to get a signed copy from Susie. We're going to trade

some signed copies of books, and

I'm excited to have that on my shelf in a place of honor in my library.

Friend, you can't change your life until you change your mind.

Susie Larson's helped us to see how God is closer than our next breath.

And if you want to feel that, it's time to go all in.

It's time to become healthier and feel better and be happier and change your

mind and change your life. And it's time to start today.

Music.

Hey, thanks for listening. The Dr. Lee Warren Podcast is brought to you by my

brand new book, Hope is the First Dose. It's a treatment plan for recovering

from trauma, tragedy, and other massive things.

It's available everywhere books are sold. And I narrated the audio books.

Hey, the theme music for the show is Get Up by my friend Tommy Walker,

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And go to my website and sign up for the newsletter, Self-Brain Surgery,

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I'm Dr. Lee Warren, and I'll talk to you soon. Remember, friend,

you can't change your life until you change your mind. And the good news is you can start today.

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