Let Creation Speak, with Dr. Michael Guillen

Good morning my friend, Dr. Lee Warren here with you and I'm excited to be back with another

episode of Mind Change Monday.

I am incredibly grateful to be able to share my guest with you today.

My friend Dr. Michael Gillen, he holds three PhDs from Cornell, believe it or not, probably

one of the smartest people I've ever encountered.

And he has written another unbelievable book, Let Creation Speak, 100 Invitations to Awe

Wonder this is another one of these home run books that Michael has written,

He's been on the show before to talk about his previous book believing is seeing,

Which I thought was one of the better books I've ever read and if you are interested in the question of why?

Science and creation Work together to generate awe and wonder or if you've ever wondered if it's really okay for

Christians to believe in science or how can a how can a person who is smart enough to understand science believe in God?

Michael Gillen's your guy.

He has studied under Carl Sagan at Cornell. He has PhDs in three fields that most of us can't even comprehend.

He can easily talk about things like relativity and creativity in the same breath.

And Michael just is a breath of fresh air because he's a legit scientist who also loves our Lord.

And I just, every time I talk to him, I find myself shaking my head at how smart this guy is

and how passionate he is.

And we have the great blessing of having two copies of his new book to give away.

Katie Daudelet at Tyndale has graciously given us two copies of the book to give away.

So send me, as always, your name, address, and zip code, please, so I don't have to write you back.

If you email, we're gonna give away two copies.

We will randomly select these based on all the people that write in so that we don't have to worry

about the time zone that you're in.

We wanna make sure everybody has an equal opportunity, so please send me your name, address, and zip code

if you'd like to be considered for the book, And we're going to get after it.

If you want to change your mind about some of the big questions of life.

One of the best ways to do that is to let creation speak. And we're going to do that today

with our friend, Dr. Michael Gillin.

Remember my friend, as I always tell you, you can't change your life until you change your mind.

And Michael Gillin is going to help us get that done. I'm so grateful that he took the time to be with us.

And despite my,

coughing and my sneezing and my runny nose, we got through it, and I think I edited all those

out for you, but we are going to have a great talk. And before we get into it, I just have one

question for you. Hey, are you ready to change your life? If the answer is yes, there's only one

rule. You have to change your mind first. And my friend, there's a place where the neuroscience of

how your mind works smashes together with faith and everything starts to make sense. Are you ready

to change your life? Well, this is the place, Self Brain Surgery School. I'm Dr. Lee Warren,

and this is where we go deep into how we're wired, take control of our thinking, and find real hope.

This is where we learn to become healthier, feel better, and be happier. This is where we leave

the past behind and transform our minds. This is where we start today. Are you ready? This,

This is your podcast, this is your place, this is your time, my friend, let's get after it.

Well, friend, we're back and I'm so excited to bring back my friend, Dr. Michael Gillen,

for his second visit to the Brain Surgery Podcast here. Michael, welcome back to the show.

Hey, Lee, it's so wonderful to see you, my brother. Looking forward to our conversation. Thank you for inviting me.

Well, thank you for being here and thank you for writing another fantastic book.

Telling people about your books for several years now, and you've got a doozy of a new one,

Let Creation Speak, 100 Invitations to Awe and Wonder. Give us the 30,000 foot view, Mike, about the new book.

Well, you know, after Believing is Seen, my previous book, Jan Long Harris over at Tyndale,

said, hey, we want a new book from you,

and my first reaction was I was really busy because we're launching a new entertainment company, Accelerized Media.

And I didn't know if I would have the time to do that, but as we were talking about it, I said,

well, you know what, Jan, I'd love to do a book that helps me share some of the things

that I've learned about the natural world, about God's creation.

You know, being a scientist for so many decades, I have an intimate relationship with the universe.

It might sound like a weird way to say things, but it's true, I've lived and breathed,

my study of the universe for many decades, And I wanted to share some of that with my readers.

And she said, okay, that's fantastic. So, came up with this idea.

The title is Let Creation Speak, exclamation mark.

And I said it because, you know, we don't wanna say like, let creation speak.

No, it's like each one, there are 100 essays, right? Each essay is about some special plant or animal

or natural phenomenon.

And...

Really, each essay I see as a kind of a direct communication between it and the reader, and just saying,

let creation itself speak to you, so that you can see for yourself that these are not accidents.

These are created things.

And so, we have 100 invitations. You can read them in any order you want.

You can read them one every day, one every week, whatever you want.

My caution is to the reader, don't binge read it. You're gonna be tempted to binge read them

because each one is like a laced potato chip.

You can't just eat one, you're gonna want two or three.

But my advice is just read one, let the lessons sink in, because each essay is then followed by a little reflection.

It's like, okay, if we're talking about, let's say, the immortal jellyfish, which is a fascinating story.

It's one of my favorites.

Then I have a little reflection that says, okay, well, what does this mean to us?

Why should you care about the immortal jellyfish?

And then, so I personalize it, I bring it down to earth for people.

And then I follow it up with a piece of scripture that's appropriate to it.

But it's the essay that drives the whole invitation. And so it's something very different.

Some people wanna compare it to devotional. Remember when 7-Up was marketing itself as the un-cola? Yeah.

Well this is kinda like the un-devotional, all right? It is.

It's not a devotional, I repeat.

And Jen was very fearful of that. She said, oh my God, people are gonna think

this is a devotional.

It's not. It's a collection of 100 short essays about creation, so that you can see through the

creation and see, behold, the creator himself.

It's beautiful. And I think you could use it as a daily devotional if you wanted to. Yeah, you could.

Look, you know, I don't know the ins and outs of publishing, but I guess devotionals have

a bad reputation or something like that and so forth.

But I don't get it. I just wrote the 100 essays and each one of them is fascinating.

And you're right, people could use it as a devotional for sure.

They don't have to. And it's also written, you know, not just for the Christian, obviously because of the

biblical scriptures at the end of every invitation, it would help if you believed in the Bible.

But even if you came to it as a skeptic, you know, as an agnostic or an atheist, you're

still going to get that sense of awe and wonder from just reading about some aspect or some element of creation.

You could skip reading the Bible verse, I wouldn't. You could just simply say, well, the Bible is a very wise book and take it on that level.

So this book is written not just for Christians, it's really written for everybody.

And I'll say one more thing about it, Lee, and that is, the cover has to be one of the

most pretty covers I've ever seen in any book.

I love it. Right? It's beautiful.

The artists have really outdid themselves. So it's like a gift book.

And when they sent me the galleys...

I said, guys, the cover is just drop dead beautiful. I said, but the inside,

you gotta illustrate the inside as well. And so they did, they went the extra mile.

So this is a gift book through and through, appropriate for the Christmas season.

Get one for yourself.

You know, get one for somebody who's feeling a little low in life.

This, who need to kind of feel a sense of awe and wonder. Maybe they are far from feeling that.

And then get one for the holidays, people who I think would just love this book.

I'm very proud of this book.

I poured my heart and soul into it. I'm very proud of this book.

I think you should be. I was listening to it this morning on the treadmill.

I found myself kind of having little vignettes of it every day as I've gone through the material.

And I just love it. But before we kind of, there's two stories I want to talk about inside the book in a little bit.

The Fata Morgana story and the one in a billion story about the bats.

I think there's two great little stories that you could share with us.

But let's get the bona fides out on the table. For people that aren't familiar with Michael Gillen,

I've of course given your bio and you've been on the show before,

but tell us about, so you're not a high school biology teacher.

Like when we say, I'm a scientist, I'm a neurosurgeon, I'm not a real scientist in the academic sense.

Let's just tell people a little bit about your background, Mike, about who you are

and why I say that, like, if you're gonna talk about a legit world-class scientist

who has come to faith, let's hear Michael Gillen's background story.

Well, thank you for that, Lee. You know, I was born in East L.A.

And to some degree, everything I've accomplished in life doesn't remove the fact that I still see myself

as that poor little Mexican kid growing up in East L.A.

With that dream to become a scientist, that was the only thing that drove me.

And it got me from East L.A., the adios of East L.A., to UCLA, then Cornell, where I got a three-fold PhD

in physics, math, and astronomy, and then went on to teach physics at Harvard

for about eight years.

And then that was just the beginning because ABC News then hired me to be their science editor.

I was there for 14 years, traveled the planet, North Pole, South Pole, the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean,

saw the Titanic, in fact was the first reporter to report from the Titanic.

Was inducted into the Explorers Club, which is the Explorers Hall of Fame.

All these things and then ended up producing a movie, podcast, been on the History Channel.

Yeah, on and on and on and on But my story in a nutshell is in the previous book believing a scene,

Where I really tell my story Becoming from going from being an atheist to becoming.

Christian and I think that for me is the most astonishing part of my life because all during the time I was training myself as

A scientist science was my number one. Love. It's all I cared about,

That just had no personal life didn't want one God wasn't really on my radar. I wasn't one of those angry atheists. I did God just,

It just wasn't he wasn't on my radar I didn't care enough to even look into it and I was just so fascinated with the universe

And that's why I said a moment to go when when Jan Long Harris over at Tyndale,

Asked me for my next book I just wanted to share I've learned so much about the universe at all levels and not just cosmological a biological,

Microscopic I went in to Cornell.

Thinking I wanted to train as a as an elementary particle physicists physicists

So, you know studying the tiniest things on the quantum level experimental, wanted to be an experimentalist,

changed my mind, became a theorist,

and then became fascinated with galaxies, hence the three-fold PhD in physics, math, and astronomy.

I don't think it's ever been done before at Cornell.

I was a bit of a problem child at Cornell. I just didn't fit in.

I think the faculty were just tearing their hair out over me because they didn't...

What is going on with Gillen? What is he starts off in particle physics,

now he's in astronomy, now he's in the... in the, I literally had three offices on campus.

I had an office in the math department, I had an office in the physics department,

and I had an office in the astronomy department.

I actually had four offices because my thesis advisor was an EE, electrical engineer,

and so I ended up having an office in the engineering department as well.

I was a pretty weird kid. But anyway, so, but it's prepared me for this, Lee.

I mean, it's prepared me to talk with you today, and I have so much respect for you

and the books you've written, your latest book about hope.

I know we're here to talk about my book, but I really wanna just say.

The experience you had with Mitch, I have a son who is about Mitch's age.

My son is 24. Mitch, I think, would be right around there. Maybe a little older.

Yeah, but in his 20s and you know, when I first heard your story, I mean, I just,

as a father, I just, but you offer people hope.

And I, in my own way, I'm not a brain surgeon. I mean, that's pretty awesome in my book.

But I do try to offer hope and I do mean, you know, let creation speak.

Offers people hope, you know, we live we live in tumultuous times. Although, you know people say oh my god

The world's coming to an end. Well, when was the world not coming to an end? That's right. I,

Mean really the world already came to the end, you know in the Garden of Eden

We're just kind of recapitulating that that terrible story,

over and over and over and over again and What I try to do with my my books and let creation speak as an example of that,

It's just provide people with some hope that, you know, when you read about these different things in the 100 Invitations,

and each one is fascinating, you realize that there is awe and wonder in this world.

It's not just about death and destruction and darkness and dysfunction,

which is all you hear about in the headlines these days.

No. It's about beauty. It's about design. It's about creation.

It's about awe. It's about wonder.

And so in my, you know, small way.

Try to offer people the same thing you do Lee you you offer people who whose lives may have been devastated,

in some way or another,

Offer them hope yeah offer them a future You know I always think of Jeremiah the the passage in Aramaic Jeremiah that says you know I I know the plans

I have for you. You know they're their plans for good not for disaster

You know to give you a future and what and hope it's interesting that of all the thing God could have said to give

to give you a future and, you know, all the money you want.

Or I'll give you a future in the biggest house you can imagine.

Or, you know, whatever. No, he said, to give you a future.

But a future without hope is bleak. That's right. You know, we have a whole generation today, young people.

You know, how Mitch would have been, and my son is right now,

facing a world that is hopeless. It seems hopeless. There's nothing to love about this world.

But when in Let Creation Speak, I shine the spotlight. Maybe it's a little insect that carries a forest on its back

or maybe it's a galaxy way out there in the universe or maybe it's a mother tree in the middle of a forest.

Whatever it is, I shine a spotlight on some aspect of God's beautiful, awesome, wondrous creation.

And it cannot help but put a little lift in your step when you read that.

Right, I'm not an accident.

The world is not an accident. There is a God, and he has plans for me,

and he has plans to give me a future and to give me hope.

So this is what animates me. I know this is what animates you, my brother.

Apart from what you do in the operating room, apart from what I do in my scientific stuff,

this is what we do to offer people hope.

That's amazing, and that is a perfect segue in people are feeling this desperation

and this hopelessness, and a lot of us feel lonely.

Like, there's billions of people on the planet, why would God care about me?

Like, what does creation say about that?

Yeah, well, there's this wonderful, one of the essays, and I don't know which invitation number it is,

but it's about the Mexican free-tailed bats.

Yeah, the bats. Yeah, there is a great cave not too far from San Antonio.

And actually, when I was at Good Morning America, I actually went down there and filmed it.

And I don't wanna give the whole invitation away, but the short essay is about these bats.

And the most profound thing, and I think what you're driving at, is that there is a time

when the males and the females come into this cave just outside of San Antonio, and they mate.

And then when the babies are born, the males just take off. They leave behind the females with their babies.

So the moms and the babies have the cave to themselves.

There are literally millions and millions and millions of these babies and what will happen is that they tend to attach themselves to the

Ceiling of the cave. Yeah where it's warmer, right? And then the moms go off to get food.

And this is the amazing part. This is the amazing part when the moms come back,

Picture yourself as one one of these mama bats Okay, you you now have a mouthful of food insects that you want to feed to your baby, right?

But there's a cave full of millions and millions of babies. Which one is yours? Yeah, and by some,

remarkable method Each mom is able to find her way Specifically to her baby bat to feel,

Now that's the story and I could have just left it at that. That's the essay

It's the facts and that's the facts about creation and it's marvelous and it's awesome and wondrous by itself

But then I have a little reflection after that said, okay,

say, so what is nature? What is creation and the Creator who created this trying to tell

us? And in my, again I don't want to give everything away, but in my reflection I say, well you know what?

You might feel extremely lonely in a world of seven plus billion people.

I think what we're up to eight billion people now.

I said, and you might wonder, I know I hear from my son and his girlfriend and his generation.

They just, they're the loneliest generation ever.

And yet they're connected by the Internet.

And, you know, I'll have my son say sometimes, I don't know if God cares about me, dad.

You know, I pray and, you know, I don't know if he even hears me or cares about me.

How do I answer? and I said, Raven, there is a God son, and he's like that mama bat,

and I don't care how many millions or billions of people there are in this world, he knows who you are,

he knows what you need, and he will make a beeline to you and feed you what you need.

So each, this is, and then I followed up in this particular invitation with a piece of scripture.

I don't remember which one it was.

But the point is, this is what the book is made of. A hundred of these little kind of,

I don't know, mother's milk.

Yeah. Just offering you hope that there is a God and the evidence for him is all over.

You know, Lee, I chuckle.

When I hear anyone telling me, well, I can't believe in God.

How can you believe in God?

There's no evidence, especially a lot of my scientific colleagues,

there's no evidence for God. They keep saying, it's like a little mantra.

There is no evidence for God. I have studied the universe, Salma,

and there is no evidence for God. My gosh, take the blinders off, brother, sister.

The whole universe is evidence for God the whole that's right The whole of the natural world is and that's what this book is all about there,

You know, I love romans 1 20. I have it here in front of me for ever since the world was created,

Not ever since the world happened by accident. No, it tells us for.

Ever since the world was created People have seen with their own eyes the earth and the sky,

through everything god has made lead, they can clearly see his invisible qualities, his eternal power, his divine nature. And

then the last sentence for me, Lee, is the kicker. So they have no excuse for not knowing

God. So don't tell me there's no evidence for God. The whole of creation is evidence

for God, and that's what this book is all about. One hundred pieces of evidence that,

that there is a God, that none of this is an accident.

And I love it, I love it. I just felt so good when I wrote this book.

Don't you feel that way?

When you read and write a book, it's like cathartic. It's like God has laid this message in your heart,

and you're just agitated, agitated.

You can't sleep until you just get it out, get it on paper, share it with the world,

and now you feel like, okay, Lord, I have done my part.

Thank you for seeing me through this.

That's how I feel about this book. I could die tomorrow and feel really good

that I wrote this book to share to the world.

Now you are. And I hope it doesn't fall on blind eyes. It will not.

Some people, right? I don't think so.

I think even, look, when Jan and I over at Tyndale were talking about this.

We said look we don't want to write. We don't want to write a devotional number one,

We don't want to write a book that's just for Christians number two, right?

This is a book that should be read and understood and appreciated by anybody,

Christian atheist Muslim, whatever you are agnostic and I do believe that that's what this book does. It's just again

and shining a spotlight on creation,

not so that we just celebrate creation itself,

but the mind behind creation, God himself.

You know, Gaylord Nelson was the senior senator from Wisconsin, and when I was at Good Morning America,

I had a chance to interview him.

I actually went to his house to interview him in Wisconsin. His wife was the most gracious hostess.

She gave us the most beautiful aged Wisconsin cheese I have ever had in my life.

You know, he's a senior senator, he had the best stuff there.

But the reason I interviewed him is because he is the father and the founder of Earth Day.

Earth Day, you know, which we celebrate every April. We celebrate the Earth, we celebrate the natural world,

the plants, the animals, and all, and that's fantastic.

But I think, why don't we have a God Day then? Yeah. Because, let's follow, you know, okay,

let's by all means, let's keep Earth Day, let's not, April, maybe the day after,

or the week after, God Day.

Because we want to recognize that creation didn't just, why are we celebrating an accident, Lee? That's right.

If you really believe that the world The life on earth is an accident then every Earth Day is just about celebrating an accident

Well, you don't see a head-on collision between two cars and stop and just start worshiping the the at the accident

You don't say oh, that's most wonderful beautiful. Look at these two Cadillacs. It just hit head-on and now they're smashed metal

Isn't that the most beautiful we have to do everything we can to preserve this accident

No, it's think about how stupid that is. So every Earth Day,

Fantastic keep Earth Day But let's have a God Day to acknowledge the fact to acknowledge the evidence that I give you a hundred pieces of evidence in this

Book that creation is not an accident

It was designed and executed by a masterful genius of a God who loves us more than we deserve,

Amen. Wow, that's the sermon right there. That's drop the mic. I love it Hey, wow, so while I've got you, Michael,

I've been talking a lot on the show lately about this idea from quantum physics,

and I'm gonna say it like I'm a fifth grader, because that's about how well I understand it.

This idea that two things can be true at once. You know, the electron can be a wave

and a particle at the same time. It can be in two places at the same time.

And this idea from physics of retrocausality, right, that something in the future can somehow affect

something in the past.

I read a study recently, and it was done almost as a joke, it was a satire almost, where this guy,

and it was published in the British Medical Journal,

this guy took medical charts of people who had been in the hospital for a diagnosis

of bloodstream infection, sepsis,

and divided them using a random number generator into two groups, age and sex matched,

And then he had some people pray over the charts of one group, but not on the other.

And then they compared outcomes, like 10 different outcome measures.

And the group that had been prayed for had significantly better outcomes.

And all these different categories, you know, hospitalization, medical, medications required,

all these different things.

And then he pulled the punchline, which was that the patients had actually been discharged

from the hospital 10 years before the prayers had happened on behalf of the charts.

So he was sort of making a joke about scientific research related to something you can't really test.

But they did it again with cardiac patients, and the cardiac patients had the same outcomes.

The people that got prayed for had better outcomes than the people that didn't,

even though they had been in the hospital a long time before this event occurred.

And the guy who wrote the article that I read said, maybe God's winking on that

using the science of retrocausality to prove the point that you should never quit praying.

Like, what does that, does that sound like a joke to you? Does it sound like it's possible with physics

that time isn't really what we think it is?

Or how does it land on a real physicist?

How much time do we have? As much as you want.

No, that is an awesome question and the short answer is yes.

And I think that when you read about my journey from atheism to Christianity,

science is actually what brought me to my knees.

You know, you'll often hear about people who will get a biblical tract or have people praying over them for long periods of time

of time and then they come to Jesus.

Well, I came to Jesus through science, and it was through things like this.

Here's the short answer to your profound question.

Science has discovered that there are ways of communication that we just simply don't understand.

One of the examples of that is what we call quantum entanglement, and the experiments

have now been done, so this is not what I'm about to describe to you is not something that's theoretical.

It's actually been established in the lab by a number of people around the world.

And basically what you do is you take two quantum entities, I call them quantum twins.

They could be an electron, they could be a photon, whatever, but let's just say you take quantum twins,

quantum-sized entities that are identical, and then you separate them.

They're separated at birth, as it were. So one goes off in this direction,

and the other one goes off in that direction.

And what we've discovered is that these two entities, even though they may be miles and miles and miles apart,

And and the experiments we're doing now are increasing the distance verifying that this this phenomenon,

Keeps going no matter what the distance might be. Yeah that they're able to communicate with each other.

Instantaneously faster than the speed of light faster than the speed of light when I say, you know, we talk about instant messaging

Well, it's not really instant if I text you The signal has to go through all kinds of circuitry and then wireless.

Devices in order to get to you. So if you really want to be technical about it, instant

messaging is not instant at all. There is a little lapse. Now it may seem like it's,

instantaneous, but it isn't. So in physics, we have always believed that, well, ever since

1905 when Einstein published his theory of special relativity, we believed that information

travels at the speed of light in a vacuum. That's the fastest speed information can

and travel, so there will always be a lag time.

If I try to communicate with you, Lee, you're up there in Nebraska, I'm here in Texas,

so even this conversation we're having, there is actually a lag between your question and my answer.

People won't perceive it because it's short, but it's there.

So getting back to quantum entanglement, the discovery that two entities can communicate

with each other literally, instantaneously,

no lag time whatsoever,

defies everything we've ever believed in physics.

In fact, it was so unbelievable that Einstein himself, before he died,

called it spooky action at a distance.

And it remains that. It is spooky.

Well, spooky because we don't understand it.

So when you speak about prayer studies, whether they're meant to be satirical

or whether they're meant to be serious-minded, There have been a lot of prayer studies.

Some evidence there is a positive result, others don't.

But here's the thing. When you ask this question,

which is ultimately the question you need to ask is,

is there anything we have learned in physics that disallows prayer to work?

No. The answer is no.

In other words, prayer, which I believe in because I've experienced it in my own life,

is completely consistent with the laws of physics.

There's a bigger conclusion to come in this regard. So that's one big bombshell.

The second bombshell is this.

You would think, I mean, science, if you think about it, has been at it for more than 2,000 years

because you can kind of trace the origins of modern science back to Aristotle, right?

In the fourth century BC.

He is the grandfather of modern science, right?

Newton is kind of considered the father of modern science, right?

And so when you look back and you think,

okay, well, they've been at it for more than two, scientists have been at it for more than 2,000 years

and they've trained their very rigorous minds,

insisting on purely rational explanations for everything, right?

So you'd think that by now, we would have like the most rational world,

scientific worldview, like airtight, super logical worldview, really.

Instead, what we're seeing is that science is now drifting into metaphysics. That's right.

In other words, what we're seeing is that science is coming face to face with phenomena

like the one I just described, quantum entanglement, it simply can't explain with simple logic.

This is not a logical thing. This is what I call translogical.

And when I recount my journey from atheism to Christianity, one of the pivotal moments, as I said,

I didn't just fall on my knees and believe in Jesus. It was a gradual thing with me,

because I'm kind of hard-headed.

I'm a typical hard-headed scientist. It takes a lot to turn the ship around for me, right?

Takes a lot of evidence, a lot of thinking, a lot of soul searching.

And one of the pivotal moments for me in my journey from atheism to Christianity.

It was when my now wife, but then girlfriend at Cornell, challenged me to read the Bible with her.

I had no interest in doing it, but I did have an interest in spending more time with her.

I wasn't that stupid.

I was a nerd, but I wasn't that nerdy at that point. So I just remember reading the New Testament

and the way Jesus expresses himself, like the first shall be last.

In order to live, you have to die. And it's like, and on the surface, that's not logical.

You know, Jesus is speaking gibberish, right? But not to me, he wasn't.

I said, oh my God, he's speaking the language of modern physics.

He, right? This man, who lived more than 2,000 years, is speaking the language of modern physics,

and it blew me away, because by then, I had investigated Buddhism, and Confucianism,

and Islam and Judaism, all the rest of it.

And I had never encountered this phenomenon. Buddha doesn't talk like that.

Buddha makes sense. He says, you know, just calm down, you know, be peace.

Okay, that's fine, that's logical, right?

Inner peace, it's important, blah, blah, blah. Not making fun of it because I actually learned

something very serious from every religion and I'm enriched by all of that.

But Jesus was the first and only religious figure main religious figure that spoke that way.

And so that was the beginning, really, of my conversion.

So yes, I would say that the studies that you cited, the published studies that you cited.

There is, look, I'll just button it up like this.

There is nothing, well, let me back up by saying, I remember speaking at a college somewhere on the East Coast.

It may have been George Mason University. I can't remember for sure.

Maybe it was the University of Maryland.

It was in the East Coast, Northeast. And afterwards a student came up to me and he said,

Dr. Gillen, you believe in the whole Bible?

Do you believe in the whole Bible?

It's like, what do you want me to say? No, I believe in here and there, I just want a cherry pick.

I said, well, let me answer your question this way because I know what you're asking me.

I understand it's hard for you to believe that a scientist, a hard-nosed scientist,

a physicist, mathematician, astronomer can actually believe in the Bible?

I know what you're asking, so I'm gonna answer it this way.

There is nothing in the Bible, I repeat, there is nothing in the Bible that is fundamentally

inconsistent with everything in modern physics.

Wow. Period, that's it. If there were, I'd be the first one to call it to your attention.

Now, I liken it to my marriage, to Laurel. We've been married now for like 32 years.

Do we have our disagreements? Yeah, but there are things like, okay, which way do you put

the toilet paper roll? If it goes out this way or under that way? Or there may be more

serious disagreements we might have about our raising our son. Maybe she has one idea

about how we should react to something our son does or says, and I have a different idea.

Yes, but if you ask the question, are we fundamentally aligned? Do we have a fundamentally

Identical worldview the answer is yes. Yeah.

Well, it's the same with science and Christianity. It's the same with science in the Bible,

Yeah, there are differences of opinion For example people make a big deal out of the timing is is the earth, you know

6,000 years old or four billion years old. It doesn't matter time is relative time is an absolute quantity, right?

But if you ask the question so they you know, and And unfortunately Christians are get themselves all tangled up with these superficial disagreements.

It's like the disagreement about the toilet paper roll.

It's superficial folks. It's superficial.

When you ask the question, which is the more important question, and this is how I was

answering that kid at the college.

When you ask the question, is the scientific worldview fundamentally inconsistent with

the biblical worldview? The answer is no.

The two are fundamentally the same. And I've written about it in my book,

Amazing Truths, How Science and the Bible Agree, and Believing is Seen,

and even with this Let Creation Speak.

There's evidence for that.

So my reply to you, I remember I asked you how much time we have.

I'm editing myself. I could go on and on, but you get the idea.

Yeah, there is no fundamental inconsistency between science and the Bible.

Because if there were, I couldn't be talking to you an honest person. Think about it, Lee. How could I present myself to you or my readers

or my viewers or whatever as a scientist who's also a Christian? Well, Christianity is based

on what is spoken about, especially in the New Testament, right? So how could I present

myself like that authentically if I knew in my heart of hearts or in my mind, in the back

of my mind. I was keeping a lie. I was keeping a secret that there was some fundamental fundamental

seismic difference between the scientific worldview and the biblical worldview. But there isn't.

So I sleep beautifully at night. I wake up beautifully in the morning. I thank God. When,

I see a rainbow, I don't just see, you know, the promise God made to Noah so so many years ago, right? I also see.

The physics behind it, the diffraction, the reflection, the refraction, I see that.

So my science only enhances my biblical worldview. It doesn't destroy my biblical worldview.

It doesn't work against my biblical worldview.

Everything in this book, The Let Creation Speak is a perfect example of that.

When you just simply say, let's look at elements of creation,

whether it's a bug or whether it's an optical illusion or whether it's static electricity

Or it's the you know it's some kind of a plant man-eating plant or something like that or meat-eating plant,

What am I doing? I'm saying to you,

That God is speaking to us He is revealing himself to us through his creation,

Creation doesn't speak against God,

creation speaks in favor of God and when I say let creation speak I I think of Job 12 7 through 9 if you want to learn,

If you want to learn my friend Then go and ask ask who?

The animals and the birds the flowers and the fish and So what is this verse? How does it finish?

It says because any of them any of them can tell you what the Lord has done.

Not what an accident has done. That's right what the Lord has done,

And so when I say let creation speak it's because I want creation to speak to your mind and to your heart both and to your,

Spirit, that's what this book is all about Wow.

Friend you got to read it. Let creation speak from dr. Michael Gillan also One of my very favorite podcasters science plus faith with dr. G. I love it every episode

I learned something from you Mike and I mean I've been around science my whole life and I still learn from you

So I have so much respect for you and just I'm so grateful that you've written this book and and you really landed the plane

So so we're coming in for the landing here and and somebody out there's hurting and and they're looking for hope like give us 30 seconds

of hope from Michael Gillan.

You know, Jesus said to us, in this life you will have trials and tribulations.

He wasn't sugarcoating.

That's right. And we certainly know that now. God knows, Lee, you know that with Mitch.

You know that life can deal us the most devastating kind of blow.

It just comes out of nowhere.

You know, one moment, you're like the Titanic and you're floating on the ocean and everything is good

and the sun is coming up and then the next moment, boom, your life hits an iceberg

and you're devastated somehow.

But then Jesus doesn't finish there. He doesn't just finish with the warning,

that we will have trials and tribulations. He says, but take heart because I have overcome the world.

And so I want people out there who are experiencing a devastation of some kind or another.

I don't know what it is, but I've had my own devastating moments.

I call them my titanic moments.

What I want you to understand is that in this book.

I'm not just talking to you about the insects and the birds and the animals and the flowers,

What i'm saying to you is through your devastation,

Jesus says to you take heart. I have overcome the world He not only created a world that is resilient that comes back,

From the seeming dead and there are invitations in here where I talk about that how yeah areas devastated for example by chernobyl

the Chernobyl nuclear is coming back, roaring back to life.

It's because God made a resilient creation. And guess what?

He made you resilient. So if you're experiencing some moment of devastation

right now, take heart because God made you resilient.

And when you read about the resilience in God's creation, you will start to see that awe and wonder,

and that hope and that future that Jesus promises you.

God bless you, Michael. I pray His richest blessings on you and your family in this book

and how much it's going to help people. Thank you for your time today, brother.

Thank you, Lee. God bless you and your family, and happy Thanksgiving to you and the listeners.

And to you as well. How encouraging was that? I love Michael Gillan so much. I know you

can hear his passion, how much he loves the Lord, how much he loves science, and how beautifully

he's able to integrate those two things. Listen, Let Creation Speak is a wonderful—he's

adamant that it's not a devotional book,

but you can use it that way.

Use it as a daily Bible study. Use it as a way to open your eyes to the amazing things that God has done.

He tells some unbelievable stories, each one tied to a scripture and a little life lesson at the end.

I think it's just powerful and beautiful, and I can't wait for you to read it.

Michael Gillen, check out his book.

Everywhere books are sold today. It's gonna help you, I promise.

It's gonna make a difference. I hope this episode was encouraging to you.

I hope it helped you change your mind about some things.

And we even got a little talk in there about retrocausality and Einstein and retroactive prayer

and all those beautiful things we've been talking about lately.

Michael Gillin is the man, when I wanna elevate my brain power, I talk to him. He always makes me.

Step up my game a little bit and think about things in a better way. So check them out. Check out Michael Gillins,

Incredible new book let creation speak here on mind change Monday. Remember friend. You can't change your life until you change your mind

I'm dr. Lee Warren until next time we're praying for you. Check out the prayer wall at W Lee Warren MD comm slash prayer,

And don't forget the good news is you can always start today Hey, thanks for listening.

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