Look for God in the Story, with Tara-Leigh Cobble (Mind-Change Monday)

Good morning, my friend. I hope you're doing well. This is Dr.

Lee Warren, and I am excited to be with you here on Mind Change Monday.

Today, I have a special guest, incredibly special guest, who's going to tell

us a story about how she changed her mind about the Bible and the way she changed

her mind about the Bible has led to literally hundreds of millions of people

also changing their mind about the Bible. This is an incredible story.

I've got Tara Lee Cobble from the Bible Recap on the show today.

She's going to tell us about how the first time she read the Bible through,

she didn't like what she saw very much. She didn't like the God that she found.

And then she made an incredible mind change.

She had a pastor come alongside her and show her a different way of looking at the scripture.

And the second time she read it through, she saw God in a whole new way, fell in love with him.

And that set the course of the work of her life and has changed millions of

other people's lives, led many people to christ and is now she hosts the bible

recap podcast which has hundreds of millions of downloads,

and is one of the very top five or six podcasts in the world at any given time

most of the time this week she's led.

Thousands and thousands of people to start Bible study groups.

She's encouraged people to read the Word of God, and she's done it all by just

discovering that God is where the joy is.

And if that's not a great episode to have on Mind Change Monday,

I can't imagine a better one. So we've got Tara Lee Cobble today.

I will tell you this. We had some trouble with the internet the day that we recorded.

There were some storms, and the audio quality was goofed up.

There's something wrong with the way the internet was working that day.

And I did a lot of engineering to make this better, but there's some echo and

just some funny things that felt like the enemy was attacking this episode and

making it almost impossible to get done.

I have significantly improved it, but bear with it.

Push through it because the conversation is worth it. If there's a little echo

or something's bothering you with the audio, it's okay.

It's as good as it's going to get. The conversation's worth it.

Press through and change your mind the way Tara Lee did, and you might find

that God is where the joy is because that's what she landed on when she changed

her mind about the word of God. And this is an incredible conversation.

Before we get into it, I have one question for you.

Hey, are you ready to change your life? If the answer is yes, there's only one rule.

You have to change your mind first. And my friend, there's a place where the

neuroscience of how your mind works smashes together with faith and everything

starts to make Are you ready to change your life?

Well, this is the place. Self-Brain Surgery School.

I'm Dr. Lee Warren, and this is where we go deep into how we're wired.

Take control of our thinking and find real hope. This is where we learn to become

healthier, feel better, and be happier.

This is where we leave the past behind and transform our minds.

This is where we start today. Are you ready? This is your podcast.

This is your place. This is your time, my friend. Let's get after it.

Music.

Friend, we're back, and I'm so excited to be introducing you to a person who

really doesn't need an introduction.

I've got Tara Lee Cobble with us today from the Bible Recap.

Welcome to the show, Tara Lee.

So happy to be here with you. What an honor. So grateful. It's the first time

you've been interviewed by a brain surgeon, right?

As far as I know, yeah. That's so great. Well, hey, before we get started,

Tara Lee, would you mind saying a word of prayer for us?

For sure. That'd be great. Great. Father, what an incredible opportunity to talk to Dr.

Lee Warren today and his listeners and to have this conversation.

I pray for each person listening that there be something that you use to bless

them and encourage them and meet them where they are.

You know, every listener by name, you know, every Mark and every Teresa and

every Shirley and every Andrew.

And I pray that every person who's listening, you would show up in a way that

is very specific to them. And.

Remind them of your attention to their circumstances, to their heart,

to the details of their lives.

And we just praise you that you are a God who can do that, that you are the

God who knows hearts and minds and life circumstances.

And you can speak individually through the same words to different people.

And so I pray that you would bless them. I pray a blessing over this conversation.

Will you be glorified in this conversation, Lord?

And we thank you for your son, Jesus, and we thank you for your spirit who dwells in us.

What a gift it is to be adopted into your family. We love you, too. Amen.

Amen. Thank you so much, Tara Lee. I'm excited to have this conversation with

you. And it just has a little bit of background.

About two and a half years ago, a listener of this show mailed a copy of your book to my wife, Lisa.

This is a gift and said, hey, you should check this out. And so thanks to that

listener, whoever you are out there. Isn't that great?

So and so she sent that book and we were already in the middle of a year.

We do pretty much go through the Bible every year.

And so we kind of set it aside for a while. And then this year decided we were

going to do the Bible recap and started doing the videos.

And it's just been so amazing because I spent my whole life reading the Bible.

And you have just every day something that Lisa or me or both of us say,

wow, I never thought about that before.

So it's been really great. And I appreciate you taking us through the Bible this year. So thank you.

I love that I get to read through the Bible with you. It's my favorite thing.

That's awesome. Hey, how did it come about?

You know, how did your love for Scripture or turn into a thing in your life?

Where did it come from? And then how did that turn into the way that you choose

to practice your profession?

Wow. Okay. Well, those would be two distinct questions as far as like the answers

would be, how did I fall in love with scripture? And then how did that become

the Bible Recap Podcast?

And the how did I fall in love with scripture?

You know, I grew up in a home where the Word of God was valued and esteemed.

My family owns a Christian bookstore.

My first job was working in that Christian bookstore at age six.

I had every opportunity to read the Word of God, to learn about the word of God.

I was surrounded by concordances and commentaries.

And I took a lot of that in over time, but I had never read the story of scripture

in the order that it happened.

And a pastor friend of mine encouraged me to do that.

And when he encouraged me to do it, I didn't want to.

Like that's the honest answer. I didn't want to.

My experience of scripture was in what I tried to read the parts I was unfamiliar with.

They were confusing, frustrating.

I didn't know where to put them in the story, in the timeline of scripture,

because I didn't know at the time.

But when you try to read the Bible front to back, you're not actually reading

in chronological order. You're just reading in front to back order.

And I didn't know that the Bible was laid out like a library, not like a timeline.

And so this pastor

friend offered to answer my questions along the way he's like

you can understand this and i was like all all that

happens to me when i read the bible is i accumulate frustration and

confusion not understanding and awe yeah and

he said well i'll answer your questions along the way so we had uh basically

a phone call every week where i just brought my list of questions to him and

he answered them and it started to make sense and um that first time that i

read through when i finished the shocking The shocking part was not that I finished.

The shocking part was that I didn't like God when I finished reading the Bible the first time.

I was in full-time ministry, and this was a really jarring,

heartbreaking thing to experience because my whole life has been attached to

the identity of the person of God.

And yet when I come to try to know more about that God that my whole life is

built around, I find that I don't like him.

Unpack that for a second. Are you talking about like the God of the Old Testament,

the war and all the things that people talk about when they deconstruct their

faith nowadays about what they find in the Old Testament? No.

It was I had I had just problems with who I saw God reveal himself to be.

And so whenever I talk to my pastor about this, he said, I have another challenge

for you. This time I want you to read it again.

And I want you to stop looking for yourself. Start looking for God.

And so, you know, when you read the Bible and you hope that now this was I should

say this is not anything I was taught in church.

This was not anything my family taught me or believed or lived out or anything.

But I think inherently as humans, we have this idea that when we do good and

we follow God and we try to honor God, that we get what we want. That's right.

That it is we can exchange it for our desires. Right.

And i didn't realize that that

was buried deep in my spirit that that was so

when i'm reading scripture and i'm seeing like oh these terrible

things like the disciples all die like really hard

terrible death yeah and like paul spends the bulk of his time as a as a follower

of christ like in prison and being beaten and being like it doesn't go well

for them and like some of the the men that we esteem the highest are,

have been kind of horrible people.

And, you know, like even David, who is a man after God's own heart,

A, did some horrific things.

And B, even as a man after God's own heart, one of the big things he asked God for, God says no.

And so like, it was just, I didn't like it.

And so I'm reading scripture and I'm seeing that, oh, this isn't something I

I can exchange to get what I want.

And I was experiencing that in my own life as well. So I really was,

that tension was very felt in my life.

I had been nailing it in the morality area.

I was checking all the boxes and God wasn't giving me what I wanted.

And I was in full-time ministry. I had given my life to serve and honor the

Lord and wasn't getting what I wanted.

And I was like, Like, this doesn't sound like a great deal.

And the hard part was, I believed it was all true. I believed the Bible was

true, all of it. And I didn't like him.

And so when my pastor said, read it again and stop looking for yourself,

start looking for God. What does he love? What does he hate?

What motivates him to do what he does?

I was like, okay, that's a different challenge. I've never really thought about it that way.

And I had to remind myself every single day to do that.

Because I'm so bent on looking for myself. What are my takeaways?

What's my to-do list? How can I be a good Christian? How can I force God into

a corner to make him give me what I want? Like, that's what I'm looking.

Like, help me. What's the combination lock? I need that code, you know? Right.

And to read scripture, to look for God was just a whole different paradigm.

And whenever I did that, I fell in love, like same book, different response,

because that lens changed everything.

It changed everything.

And so what I the way that a friend has described this that I now use as my

descriptor is I went from having a high anthropology and a low Christology to

having a high Christology and a low anthropology.

And that, man, it is wild the difference that makes.

You're right. I'm going to steal that line. That's powerful.

You know, somebody said to me... So that's how I fell in love with God's Word. I love it.

Somebody said to me that, because we're into neuroscience and we talk about

brain imaging and all that stuff, and somebody said the Bible is the only book

that scans you when you read it instead of you scanning it.

And it's exactly a great metaphor for that. The Bible reads you.

You didn't like what you saw that first time. and then you found reading it to look who God is.

I heard you talk about Japheth in the Old Testament, and you said something

I'd never thought about before, when he makes this rash vow and his daughter

comes out and he's got to honor this vow that he's made to sacrifice her.

And you said he didn't have to do that.

God has already given us a path to untake a vow and take a punishment but not

have to carry out a rash vow. bow.

And we have all these stories where we think God's hammering us in some way,

but usually the truth is He's already handled that. We're just not obeying Him.

Yeah. It's crazy the things that we assume about Scripture.

We just read them and we're like, why is God okay with David having so many wives?

And we're like, it doesn't ever say He's okay with it. It just says it's happening.

You know, it's descriptive, not prescriptive. That's right. That's powerful.

So then you you decided to make your whole life about the Bible.

How'd that come about? Yeah.

So my first, my first year through reading the Bible, not so great.

My second year reading through the Bible, when I started to fall in love with

the Lord, I was like, this is amazing.

Transformative this why is nobody

talking about this like everybody has

to read the bible this way everybody has to like it was again i'd spent my whole

life steeped in christian culture i had never heard this concept i was in full-time

ministry i was in probably a different church every sunday and had never heard

i'd never heard preaching like this necessarily i had never like Like it was wild to me,

or maybe to be honest, like maybe plenty of people had said it and they just

hadn't said it in a way that I'd heard it. Right.

So to me, it was this incredible concept that my pastor had like,

my pastor friend had shared with me.

And I was like, I need to help other people do this.

And I knew it was like an ongoing thing. It wasn't just a, you say it to somebody

and then everything changes.

Like you've got to walk people through this because it's in human nature to

look for ourselves in the story.

And so i just decided to

like there was a uh a church

that i went to at the time and um a lot of college girls at the time at that

church that wanted to we like collectively wanted to study the word and there

was not a program for that and so i went to one of the pastors and i was like

what if i just like could i just do something and he was like sure yeah this

is great love it no sign that's what you want to do.

So we just met every Sunday night and we like studied the scriptures together.

And I called it D group, which is just discipleship group.

And lots of other churches and colleges have names like that.

I didn't care that that was a widely spread name because I didn't ever plan

on it being anything more than just me and those nine girls.

And it grew a lot. And we now have, I think something like.

I don't know 300 plus d groups on six continents and

men's d groups women's d groups it has really grown over

over time because a lot of people want to study the word of god

and they don't want fluffy bible studies and they don't want things that are

um again high anthropology they don't want things that are man focused that's

right and um that's encouraging to me every year i would encourage the people

in d group to read the bible with me i read it every year i read it chronologically. Let's do this.

And every year people would start off with me in January and then they would

fall off around, you know, February.

And, um, I was like, goodness, this is so frustrating because you're going to

learn so much about God if you read the Bible.

Uh, and I know we're studying the Bible, but reading the whole Bible is different

than studying deeply in a specific text.

Both are necessary and helpful.

Um, we, I wouldn't suggest just one or or the other. I suggest both.

And so that's why I was like, we're

in D group. We're studying these texts together, these specific texts.

We're diving into books of the Bible, but let's also read the whole thing so

we understand what this means in context.

But people would fall off and fall off.

And so nine years into D group, I finally had one member who said to me,

Tara Lee, you said the only reason you made it through was because Lee helped

you, your pastor friend.

Would you help me?

Would oh yeah sure sure I'll do that yeah and

nine months in she

was finishing the old testament and she said we're on a walk

one day and she was like I cannot believe I'm about

to finish the old testament first time in my life this is incredible I couldn't

have done it unless you would walk me along step by step and then

I had the thought okay she only did it

because I helped her I only did it because Lee helped me and I

want everybody else in d group to do this so how could I

hold everyone's hand but remember they're

on different planets they're in different planets they're not

on different planets they're on

different continents that's right interplanetary bible

studies is a future thing um they're on different continents they're in different

time zones right how can i do this to serve as many people in d group as possible

and i came up with the idea of like a podcast that d group members could listen

to you know at their at their own in their own time zones And my prayer was

that 300 people in D group would do this with me.

And, um, at the time I think we had about 1200.

So I think I was looking at like a quarter of our membership,

just a quarter of the people in the group.

But so I had a very small dream, um, that God had a very big plan for and was

really taken off guard, taken. It took me, caught me by surprise. Um.

So just praising God that he has used it in the lives of so many people because,

you know, he's done exceedingly more than I could ask, think,

or imagine. That's for sure.

And when you say that, I mean, just the listener may not know this,

but the Bible Recap was the number one podcast in the world recently,

ahead of Joe Rogan, ahead of everybody.

And it's every day right in the top of all the podcast categories.

Something like, what, 25 million downloads the first year or something? Is that right? Right.

I'm terrible with numbers. I did check the numbers right before this podcast

because people often ask. We just crossed 350 million.

You know, this is our we've had a little over five years on the podcast now. That's incredible.

Yeah. But I don't remember those first year numbers. But yeah, that's incredible.

It's happening because. Well, let me ask you, why do you think that's happening?

What do you think God's up to

that everybody on the planet seems to be interested in reading the Bible?

Man, aren't we all trying to

understand life? Aren't we all trying to understand purpose and meaning?

And what I have found and what I state every day, you know, if you've read the

book, watched the podcast, watched the YouTube, I'm a creature motivated by joy. I want joy.

And every day we are finding it in God's word.

That's how we end every day's podcast with the phrase, he's where the joy is.

Every day we are pointing to the character of God. We're helping you learn,

training you in how to look for the person of God and his character in scripture,

even in the genealogies, even in those boring old Testament laws about boils

and sores, things that are disgusting or hard to understand.

We're finding the character of God and it is It is winsome and enticing and

beautiful and joy-inducing.

And just, I think when people see that, not only do they want to share it,

which is why your listener sent you that book.

They want to talk about it, which is why we're having this conversation today.

And so word of mouth is getting out about how incredible the God of the universe is. That's right.

That's incredible. And I think you're exactly right. I think God is trying to

use, is using every available medium, technology, person, willing heart to share

His Word and His love for people.

And, you know, I think when you talk about that God is where the joy is,

it would be a good time to tell you that a lot of the listeners,

most of the listeners of this show probably, are people who have been through something really hard.

We call it the massive thing. You know, we lost a child in 2013,

and a lot of the listeners are bereaved parents or people who are going through

losing a spouse to cancer or something like that.

And you're no stranger to suffering either. So maybe talk a little bit about

how you find your way towards hope through Scripture and some encouragement

for the listener that might be in the thick of that right now.

There is a quote, and I don't recall who said it, so forgive me.

But the saying is, the deeper sorrow carves into your being,

the more joy it can contain. That's right.

And so for those of us who have experienced the massive thing,

and it has just carved this rut into our soul, into our being,

into our hearts, that is the space.

And I know some of you listening are there and you're like, yes and amen.

And some of you are like, I don't believe it yet. I don't believe it.

I don't believe that there's any way that joy can fill this cavern.

That is what I've seen to be true. I lost my sister Gina to brain cancer in 2016.

I'm sorry. It's her second battle with brain cancer.

And she won the first battle three years earlier. year.

And I watched my sister before her first, I tell people before her first battle

with brain cancer, if you had a conversation with her, she would have talked

to you about one of two things,

guns and the government. Those were her two.

Those were the two things she really wanted to talk about with everybody she

encountered. And she had very strong opinions.

And after her first battle with brain cancer, those opinions didn't change.

She just didn't care to talk about him as much. She talked about the Lord.

That became her focus.

And so after her second surgery for brain cancer in 2016, January of 2016,

she woke up and she couldn't, literally the only way that she would answer questions

were with bits of scripture that she had memorized. Wow.

So,

you know, we even wondered like, is this, it's her short-term memory gone and

this is just her long-term memory that all she's holding onto is scripture.

You know, we didn't know. Yeah.

But the only way she would answer questions was with scripture.

Wow. When you asked her how she was, like, Like, I remember one of the first

questions my mom asked her was like, Gina, how are you feeling?

And she said, God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of sound mind. Wow.

And she's a different person in the best way possible.

And so we lost her shortly after that. And then, gosh, it was probably three

months later that I found out that I had to have open heart surgery to fix birth defects.

So imagine me having to tell my parents who just lost their daughter to brain

cancer that their other daughter is about to have to have open heart surgery.

Wow. Um, so three months after I found out that I had, so six months post my

sister's death, I had, uh, the surgery to repair birth defects.

And, um, as they were prepping me for that surgery,

they found out, oh, you actually have another undiagnosed birth defect that

we have just discovered through this contrast dye CT that they had to do to prep me for it.

But as soon as you get better from this open heart surgery, we need you back

in here for another one. Wow.

So two months after my second open heart surgery, or two months after my first

open heart surgery, I had to come back for a second.

Wow. The first one was a sternotomy. They went through my sternum.

The second was a thoracotomy. They went through my back.

And in the second surgery, I was electrocuted. Wow.

And it burned a hole into my back about the size of a grapefruit.

And just trial after trial after trial thrown in there. My dad had a heart attack.

My brother was burned in an explosion and had to have skin grafting.

He was burned over a third of his body.

Just all of these tragedies that kept mounting in our family.

And the Lord met us in those spaces.

He received our anger. He received our grief.

Grief he received our praise all of

those things um none of those are emotions that

god rejected from us he didn't

like there was never how dare you doubt me like when

i read in scripture god shows up in those spaces he he meets our doubt like

in i think it's mark 9 24 the man who says to jesus forgive me if that address

is wrong um lord i believe help my unbelief Like how beautiful that this man

felt like he could express to Jesus his unbelief.

Yeah, it is. It is a thing God receives from us.

And so in those spaces when there are trials, that is an opportunity to draw near.

And I love God more on the other side of those things. Doesn't mean those things hurt and hurt.

Certainly, we've all heard people meet us in our grief with terrible things from Scripture.

Yes. They will, you know, the Lord gives and the Lord takes away.

Blessed be the name of the Lord. That's right.

God works all things together for the good of the, like, yes,

those things are true. Now's not the time to say them. That's right. You know? That's right.

And so, don't let those people who mean well and say the wrong thing at the wrong time,

the right thing at the wrong time, um don't let

them show you who god is like draw

near to him let his word reveal who he is that's right

i found that to be true after we

lost mitch it was trying desperately to

find some place to put your feet down that would hold and for me it was god's

promises like he says in psalm you know 34 18 the lord is close to the brokenhearted

and i was like okay now's the time i'm brokenhearted where are you and you would

you would get a text message right Right then somebody would send you a scripture

or somebody would walk in the door with a hug or something right at the right moment.

And that was God showing up. And we found our way through that time by holding

on to his promises and watching them come true.

And you're right. Even something like Romans 8, 28 comes out down the road to

be true, that good things can come out of that devastating tragedy.

But it's not the right time to say it at the funeral home. That's not why you want to hear that.

So how do people find that hope? How do you recommend that somebody who's right

in the thick of it, what do they do in terms of gaining access to God's heart

in Scripture when they're really hurting?

Oh, man. You know, I think I would say this. It's not really the answer to your

question, but it's a response.

I encourage people to build the boat before the storm.

Yes. And so if you have the opportunity, if you are not in the moment of crisis,

start storing up your knowledge about who God is in advance. dance.

Um, so praise God, if you are not in crisis right now, thank God.

Uh, now is the time to find out who God is to build your life on the rock and not on sand.

And I think, you know, with my sister, Gina, I would say it feels a little bit

like the, the early, before her first brain cancer, like a lot of her life was maybe like sand, like,

you know, um, and, but it's never too late to,

That's right.

Saying is true. I don't even know if what these books I'm reading,

these devotionals I'm reading, are they accurate or not? Because I've never

actually read the Bible.

So you might be building on sand on top of rock, you know, but it's never too late to relocate.

So pick up, let's go, let's build a life on the rock. Let's find out who God

is by digging into the word.

And if you are in a place of struggle, man, there are passages of scripture

that I spent a long time in during hard trials.

I, there were times where lamentations and the book of Job were the only passage

of the scripture I had the capacity to read because I felt like they got me, they got me.

And, um, sometimes Ecclesiastes, you know, those are spaces that I would lean

into when I was aching, when I was hurting.

But the minute you have enough breath in your lungs to steady yourself,

when you don't just have to be carried along by scripture, when you have

enough footing starting to lean in and start

at the beginning and read the story of who god is yeah get to know the god of

the universe um if you're clinging to a life raft and it's just carrying you

along like that is great like blessed be the name of the lord that he meets

you in that space and we'll meet you there and he will you know he's near the

brokenhearted he saves the christian spirit so,

let whatever passages of the scripture carry you along carry you along and then

And then the moment you hit ground.

Start looking for the rock to build on. I love that. Never too late to relocate.

The listeners of this show will recognize that what you just said about building

ahead of time, we talk about something we call prehab.

If you come to see me in my office for back pain or something,

and I'm going to send you for surgery, before I send you to surgery,

I send you to physical therapy.

I want you to get stronger. I want you to build some tools to get over that

trauma that you're about to face so you're ready.

And we talk about that in the context of getting scripture, getting promises

in your heart, and knowing who God is before you face that thing that you're going to go through.

But when it's the acute thing and you weren't ready, I love that.

It's never too late to relocate, hold on to something that's true.

Because that's what's going to hold you up. When you get really in the middle

of that big thing, you need something that's true. You don't need platitudes.

You don't need your friends showing up, you know, telling you stuff like Job's friends did.

You need something that's true. And that's what we find in Scripture,

I think. What do you think that the future is going to hold for TBR?

What is your kind of dream for it? What do you expect to see next?

Man, what's been so cool to see is how many families are doing it together.

So the evolution of TBR over the past five years has looked somewhat like this.

A woman is doing the Bible recap, and her husband is like, what's that thing

you're listening to every morning?

I hear that. That's interesting. I want to talk about that. and so then the

next year they're like well let's do this together we should let's let's listen

to this together let's read this together.

And then they invite their neighbors to do it with them or their home group to do it with them.

And then suddenly the pastor finds out about it. And the pastor's like,

let me check into this thing.

Oh, hey, this is something maybe our whole church could do together.

Like, let's have the whole church do this Bible reading plan together.

So then the whole church is doing it. And then the kids hear them talking about it.

And the kids hear the parents listening to it. And so the kids are kind of like curious as well.

And so we have just started a kids line of products.

That's great we released our first kids devotional um

it's for ages six and up for kids who are kind of like learning to

read our next endeavor uh in the fall we're going to be releasing our next piece

which is um for kids who are reading to learn so ages probably 10 and up maybe

um and we have we're really leaning into the kids space because how cool would it be if you had a 10

year old who had read the Bible five times.

Wow. Like, can you imagine?

And, and the fact that they're learning from a young age, how to read the Bible,

looking for the character of God, that they don't grow up being fearful of this God.

Who's going to smite them. If they have a doubt, you know, who's going to strike

them with lightning when they sin, if they actually understand the character

of God and it is bringing families together, it is bringing churches together.

And so we are really excited to roll out more tools that help serve those,

those units. the family and the church.

And, um, we've already built out a lot of things that serve the church,

um, a discussion guide that people can use as they do it in a small group,

um, daily study guide, if they want something to help, help them dig deeper

into the text on their own. And, um.

We just want to use those as launching points to help the family and the church,

those two institutions, grow together, to know God more together.

And that's exactly what happened with us. Somebody mails Lisa the book,

then her sister the next year, her

sister's a headmistress of a classical education school in San Antonio.

So she was doing the Bible recap. She kept telling Lisa, hey, you need to do this.

So this year is like Lisa's like, hey, we got to do this together.

So it's like multiple people bringing other people to the word.

And it's just been amazing.

We appreciate your insights and the way that you've dedicated your life to doing

this and leading all of us towards getting to know him more. It's great.

One thing that you think that people don't know about Jesus that you wish they knew?

Oh, my goodness. I could go practical.

Like i'm thinking of just like um common misunderstandings of jesus that we

have often because of renaissance paintings um yeah we are uh we're working

through tackling some of those things um in some of the studies that we're writing

and just like addressing some of those things.

Um, or I could go spiritual, which I think is, um, probably the more helpful thing.

Um, you know, we see, I think a lot of people, a lot of people understand Jesus rightly.

And I think what they don't understand about Jesus is that Colossians tells

us he is the image of the invisible God.

Yeah. Which means Jesus reveals what the Father is like.

We have this idea that God the Father is the big angry one and Jesus is the

nice one. And the Holy Spirit is maybe the like mysterious one, right? Yeah.

The Trinity, the triune God, all of them, all three of them have the same character and will.

They just have different roles in how they engage with humanity and how they

bring about our salvation.

And Jesus is exactly like the Father.

They are exactly the same in their character.

Yeah. And so he is the image of the invisible God. He has come to earth to reveal

what the Father's heart is like.

And so when you read the Bible with us through the Bible Recap,

you're going to hear me point it out all through the Old Testament.

The beauty of the Father's character.

Like, hey, doesn't this look a lot like Jesus? Hey, here's a place where God

has really been misunderstood, huh? Like, isn't this a big misunderstanding?

And so I think one of the things that we miss is that Jesus reveals who the Father is.

That's right. I think one thing I've really picked up on from you that I think

I sort of knew but I never really thought about is that people think about the

Old Testament is God and the New Testament is Jesus. Like people have this sort of thought, right?

But Jesus is all over the place in the Old Testament. He's there in creation.

I mean, the Bible says nothing got made without him making it.

So when God said, let there be light, Jesus is doing physics and making light

like he's out there creating. And so I think I've kind of picked up from you

all the places to look for the angel of the Lord when you see that. That's Jesus.

He's in the story. So friend, Jesus has always been there, always will be there.

And Terrilee is showing us how to see him.

Terrilee, I appreciate your time today. And I promise you 35,

40 minutes, we're right up against it.

And I just want to encourage you to keep encouraging us.

You're doing a good thing for the kingdom and for the world.

And I just am very grateful for the work that you're doing and for the time

that you spent with us today.

Thank you so much. It's been an honor. I'm cheering you on and all your listeners.

I pray that God would bless you all.

Terri Lee Cobble, what a great conversation. I hope you enjoyed that, friend.

Check out the Bible Recap. If you're not already using it, Lisa and I listen to Terri Lee every day.

We read the Bible, and she does a recap, just a five or six-minute recap at

the end with some concepts that she thought her God shot for the day, some insights.

And I've learned a lot from her. It's amazing. I've been reading the Bible my

whole life. We read it through practically every year, almost every year.

And still I gain new insights every day when I do the Bible recap.

And I think that's the value in studying the Word with other people.

That's the reason that we have communities. Other people see something,

learn something about God, share it with you, pass it on.

You have insights and conversations about it. The Bible recap is a great way

to go through the Word of God.

She's got all kinds of things on her podcast that I have never picked up before.

So it's a good example of changing your mind about God. Look for God in the

story. Look for His character.

Look for his heart. Look for places where the Bible is describing what people

did and not prescribing what God wants.

Look for places where people took matters into their own hands and didn't follow the plan.

So don't blame God for things that people do.

I thought it was a great conversation. I hope you enjoyed it.

And we'll be back with more tomorrow.

But I wanted to give you this example of mind change here on Mind Change Monday

with Tara Lee Cobble. I'm Dr.

Lee Warren. I hope you have enjoyed this episode. And I hope that you are able

to remember that you can't change your life until you change your mind.

And the good news, my friend, is that you can start today.

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Hey, thanks for listening. The Dr. Lee Warren Podcast is brought to you by my

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